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Thread: THE "YOU DON'T LOVE THE CONSTITUTION" CRAP IN THIS FORUM!

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    If you don't know the history...

    The Federalists were arguing that the Bill of Rights was unnecessary, they believed that centralized government was a good thing while the Anti-Federalists believed that the centralized government should be limited. The argument was winning and Madison began changing articles in the Constitution to list the limitations, however Federalists argued that Congress had no power to change the constitution, therefore the Amendments came into being. 17 Amendments were proposed and voted on by the House, the Senate approved only 12 of them. The 10 that were about individual rights were quickly ratified, the last State to ratify those 10 was Virginia in 1791.

    Anyway, the 2 other Amendments that passed both houses dealt with pay raises for the Congress, and with how the numbers would be apportioned. One is still out there unratified, but it is obsolete, the one ratified in 1992 dealt with Congressional pay raises making it so the Congress could vote for a raise but the raise wouldn't apply until the next Congress was seated.

    The one about the how the House was apportioned is obsolete because it would be impossible with the current population, etc.

    Anyway, the one that wasn't ratified:

    Article I. After the first enumeration required by the first article of the constitution, there shall be one representative for every thirty thousand, until the number shall amount to one hundred, after which the proportion shall be so regulated by Congress, that there shall be not less than one hundred representatives, nor less than one representative for every forty thousand persons, until the number of representatives shall amount to two hundred, after which the proportion shall be so regulated by Congress, that there shall not be less than two hundred representative [sic] [the usual “nor less than one representative” is omitted either by mistake or for brevity’s sake] for every fifty thousand persons.
    Excellence is an art won by training and habituation. We do not act rightly because we have virtue or excellence, but rather we have those because we have acted rightly. We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit.
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    Imagine if that first Amendment was suddenly ratified. We'd have a zillion Congresscritters.
    Excellence is an art won by training and habituation. We do not act rightly because we have virtue or excellence, but rather we have those because we have acted rightly. We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit.
    - -- Aristotle

    Believe nothing on the faith of traditions, even though they have been held in honor for many generations and in diverse places. Do not believe a thing because many people speak of it. Do not believe on the faith of the sages of the past. Do not believe what you yourself have imagined, persuading yourself that a God inspires you. Believe nothing on the sole authority of your masters and priests. After examination, believe what you yourself have tested and found to be reasonable, and conform your conduct thereto.
    - -- The Buddha

    It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
    - -- Aristotle

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    Quote Originally Posted by Damocles View Post
    If you don't know the history...

    The Federalists were arguing that the Bill of Rights was unnecessary, they believed that centralized government was a good thing while the Anti-Federalists believed that the centralized government should be limited. The argument was winning and Madison began changing articles in the Constitution to list the limitations, however Federalists argued that Congress had no power to change the constitution, therefore the Amendments came into being. 17 Amendments were proposed and voted on by the House, the Senate approved only 12 of them. The 10 that were about individual rights were quickly ratified, the last State to ratify those 10 was Virginia in 1791.

    Anyway, the 2 other Amendments that passed both houses dealt with pay raises for the Congress, and with how the numbers would be apportioned. One is still out there unratified, but it is obsolete, the one ratified in 1992 dealt with Congressional pay raises making it so the Congress could vote for a raise but the raise wouldn't apply until the next Congress was seated.

    The one about the how the House was apportioned is obsolete because it would be impossible with the current population, etc.

    Anyway, the one that wasn't ratified:
    the idea was that the "law of the land' would not be subjected/ subjugated to "admiralty law" [ law of global commerce]. the free and living people set their roots down and proclaimed I shall not be moved. like a planting. a crop. is it or is it not ? speak. sorry. I am learning things I never knew.
    Last edited by iewitness; 02-22-2018 at 10:30 PM.
    Even so, Come, Lord Jesus
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Apisa View Post
    One sees lots of variations on the theme, "You don't love (respect) the Constitution and Bill of Rights" crap here in this forum...almost always including "warnings" about the danger of "government" overreach.

    Well...I personally think there is MUCH LESS DANGER from government going amok...or from our government becoming tyrannical…than there is from our citizens being unwilling to be governed.

    I doubt any of us right now, except perhaps Donald Trump, wants a dictatorship; I doubt any of us, except perhaps Donald Trump, wants governmental tyranny.

    But THE REAL DANGER RIGHT NOW IN AMERICA does not come from the danger of dictatorship, even with that dictator wanna-be in office...or serious governmental overreach. It comes, rather, from the fact that a significant minority of the people want not to be governed at all. They deplore government…the single most important ingredient in civilized society.

    I suspect a lot of that absurdity was started during the first inaugural address by Ronald Reagan. As chief executive, he unwisely endorsed the notion of hatred of “being governed” with his (just about always, unfortunately, quoted out of context), “…government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem.”

    He was wrong…or at least, I sure as hell hope he was wrong, because if he was correct…democracy does not stand a chance of success. Democracy demands that government be a MAJOR FACTOR in the solution to problems…and there is no chance of democracy working if government truly is the problem.

    And government requires that the people being governed...CONSENT TO BEING GOVERNED.

    Just sayin’!
    This is the problem....no? Some people cannot seem to comprehend the fact that United States of America was constructed and guaranteed to be governed as a REPUBLIC...not a pure democracy or socialist state. Democracies have never worked in World History, thus as explained in Article 4, Section 4, Clause 1 of the Constitution and made unambiguous by Federalist No. 10. It must confuse the hell out the socialists (commie lights) as to why they cannot seem to change this nation into a Social Justice State. There are unbreakable restrictions in the negative document/Constitution (drafted and ratified to place scope and limits on the power of a federal government)......that simply will not allow these changes under the RULE OF LAW.

    Thus: if you damn Alinsky radicals want to violently revolt as has every socialist state that has ever existed on planet earth has....go for it. But our founders...unlike SOME....realized that Government was a "necessary evil" and that evil should be maintained as small as possible.
    Last edited by Ralph; 02-22-2018 at 10:36 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph View Post
    This the problem....no? Some people cannot seem to comprehend the fact that United States of America was constructed and guaranteed to be governed as a REPUBLIC...not a pure democracy or socialist state. Democracies have never worked in World History, thus as explained in Article 4, Section 4, Clause 1 of the Constitution and made unambiguous by Federalist No. 10. It must confuse the hell out the socialists (commie lights) as to why they cannot seem to change this nation into a Social Justice State. There are unbreakable restrictions in the negative document/Constitution (drafted and ratified to place scope and limits on the power of a federal government)......that simply will not allow these changes under the RULE OF LAW.

    Thus: if you damn Alinsky radicals want to violently revolt as has every socialist state that has ever existed on planet earth has....go for it.
    hell yea. limit that beast. the beast is now global and who can make war against the beast ? this- http://biblehub.com/kjv/daniel/7.htm read it and understand it.
    Even so, Come, Lord Jesus
    I do not participate in delusion count me out

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Apisa View Post
    One sees lots of variations on the theme, "You don't love (respect) the Constitution and Bill of Rights" crap here in this forum...almost always including "warnings" about the danger of "government" overreach.

    Well...I personally think there is MUCH LESS DANGER from government going amok...or from our government becoming tyrannical…than there is from our citizens being unwilling to be governed.

    I doubt any of us right now, except perhaps Donald Trump, wants a dictatorship; I doubt any of us, except perhaps Donald Trump, wants governmental tyranny.

    But THE REAL DANGER RIGHT NOW IN AMERICA does not come from the danger of dictatorship, even with that dictator wanna-be in office...or serious governmental overreach. It comes, rather, from the fact that a significant minority of the people want not to be governed at all. They deplore government…the single most important ingredient in civilized society.

    I suspect a lot of that absurdity was started during the first inaugural address by Ronald Reagan. As chief executive, he unwisely endorsed the notion of hatred of “being governed” with his (just about always, unfortunately, quoted out of context), “…government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem.”

    He was wrong…or at least, I sure as hell hope he was wrong, because if he was correct…democracy does not stand a chance of success. Democracy demands that government be a MAJOR FACTOR in the solution to problems…and there is no chance of democracy working if government truly is the problem.

    And government requires that the people being governed...CONSENT TO BEING GOVERNED.

    Just sayin’!
    I agree with that, all seem to be a common statement to excuse gun ownership.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Threedee View Post
    If you hate an article of the Bill of Rights, you might just hate the Constitution.
    So if you hate a politician in the Republican party, you all of a sudden hate the whole Republican party???
    So if you hate a piece of legislation, you all of a sudden hate all pieces of legislation??

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    Quote Originally Posted by goldkam View Post
    So if you hate a politician in the Republican party, you all of a sudden hate the whole Republican party???
    So if you hate a piece of legislation, you all of a sudden hate all pieces of legislation??
    You cannot separate the single parts of the constitution out from the entire document. Not even the 3rd Amendment.

    One shouldn't have that sort of allegiance to parties, anyway, so liking or disliking a particular politician is of no further consequence. The men who wrote the constitution feared political parties (except perhaps Hamilton, who could be stupidly fearless).

    Your last bit about legislation is far too stupid to warrant a response.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eagle Eye View Post
    So you think big government is infallable. Government is run by people and people make mistakes. An example is the scandal of the VA treatment of vets. Our government deciding what is best for you. No I love this country and wore the uniform for 24 years but I also know that no matter what our government isn't perfect.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CFM View Post
    I agree that the Constitution was designed to change with the times. The founding fathers agreed so much they put a provision in the Constitution on how it should be changed. It's your problem you don't like the process and think it can be ignored.
    yeah. i remember saying that. Or you are nuts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PostmodernProphet View Post
    I know, right?.....
    You still show the spine of an overcooked spaghetti.

    False quotes are what chumps used because they don't have anything else.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flash View Post
    Do you have any support for the claim that "a significant minority of the people want not to be governed at all."
    Yeah...look at a significant minority of almost every forum in which Libertarians or American conservatives participate.

    You'll see.

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    Quote Originally Posted by USFREEDOM911 View Post
    Just calm down - calm down.

    At your age, you really need to be careful when you make the decision to climb on top of a soap box and begin ranting.
    I'm calm. Almost always. Ummm...maybe when I miss a short putt I get a bit agitated.

    But in an Internet discussion...just about never.

    But thank you for your concern.

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    I appreciate all the responses so far.

    I am more convinced than ever that there is a significant minority of people out there who simply do not want to be governed at all.

    I also am more convinced than ever of the necessity for governance...and probably plenty of it for reasons I'll mention in a second.

    The former faction may eventually become the majority...and will probably then change their tunes. OR...we will have anarchy and chaos...which is not a good thing for a nation with the kinds of offensive weapons we possess.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Apisa View Post
    I wish I had thought of the words PMP put in my mouth
    ..

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