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Thread: Simple solutions to school shootings

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peridot View Post
    Fewer die every year, so the current system is just fine. In fact there is a inverse correlation between the popularity of sporting rifles and violent crime in general.
    Spare us this lame right wing wonk tactic. We're discussing school shootings and assault weapons. The stats on the school shootings are not as you would like everyone to believe:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School..._United_States
    During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.

    George Orwell

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    Quote Originally Posted by Taichiliberal View Post
    So let me get this straight.....you're against a ban on assault weapons as they are manufactured like the AR-15 because a bunch of yahoos can convert other weapons to a similar status?

    Well then guess what? Merely ban those conversion "kits" gunners were putting out on e-bay and such...as their intent is to construct an ILLEGAL (if the law was in effect) weapon. Now don't waste my time with some BS about innocent kits, because I do recall the sales of specific tools were being put out....and if it's so damned easy to do, then the average gunner wouldn't need to buy a kit off the 'net. Same goes for the bump stocks.

    But I digress...do you agree that if the law was in place, then Cruz would NOT had this weapon?
    First....the Fla. shooter did not have a modified AR15....it was a semi automatic rifle like hundreds of other semi autos made by numerous manufactures....most used for hunting....none are automatic and look as scary as an AR ....incidentally....
    The AR in “AR-15” rifle stands for ArmaLite rifle.....the AR 15 just looks like an assault rifle...it don't work like a typical military assault weapon...

    I agree that kits manufactured to modify any rifle to work like a military assault weapon should be illegal.....same goes for bump stocks...
    If the law you want was in place this nut would not have able to simply buy the gun in a gun shop, true.....he actually had several 'mean looking' weapons, none were real assault weapons....

    Quite simply, if the FBI and/or local police would have done the jobs, the murders would have happened in the first place and all this talk about changing gun laws wouldn't even be taking place....
    Put blame where it belongs
    ATF decided it could not regulate bump stocks during the Obama administration.
    It that time," the NRA wrote in a statement. "The NRA believes that devices designed to allow semiautomatic rifles to function like fully-automatic rifles should be subject to additional regulations."
    The ATF and Obama admin. ignored the NRA recommendations.


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    Quote Originally Posted by SmarterthanYou View Post
    there are two types of sales. one from an FFL through which those weapons are bought from manufacturers, and two, from an individual in private sales. so your point doesn't stand. both sales are legal.
    the operative word, the key word in your response is SALES. Whether it was from the manufacturer or individual, the Assault Weapons Ban was implemented against both! And again, CRUZ DID NOT HAVE A WEAPON UNTIL HE BOUGHT ONE....long after the AWB expired in 2004.

    On this the OP stands valid, whether you like it or not. A matter of fact, a matter of history.
    During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.

    George Orwell

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    Quote Originally Posted by Taichiliberal View Post
    Spare us this lame right wing wonk tactic. We're discussing school shootings and assault weapons. The stats on the school shootings are not as you would like everyone to believe:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School..._United_States
    Save us the same tired and fraudulent appeals to emotion, they have no place in a debate. What matters is facts, and the undeniable, immutable fact is that fewer people die from firearms every year, including children, and school shootings themselves are so statistically insignificant as to be discounted entirely. This is objective, dispassionate truth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NOVA View Post
    First....the Fla. shooter did not have a modified AR15....it was a semi automatic rifle like hundreds of other semi autos made by numerous manufactures....most used for hunting....none are automatic and look as scary as an AR ....incidentally....
    The AR in “AR-15” rifle stands for ArmaLite rifle.....the AR 15 just looks like an assault rifle...it don't work like a typical military assault weapon...

    I agree that kits manufactured to modify any rifle to work like a military assault weapon should be illegal.....same goes for bump stocks...
    If the law you want was in place this nut would not have able to simply buy the gun in a gun shop, true.....he actually had several 'mean looking' weapons, none were real assault weapons....

    Quite simply, if the FBI and/or local police would have done the jobs, the murders would have happened in the first place and all this talk about changing gun laws wouldn't even be taking place....
    Not to be callus, an AR-15 style rifle (Smith & Wesson M&P 15 .223) that Cruz had and a straight out AR-15 ARE STILL ASSAULT RIFLES THAT WOULD HAVE NOT BEEN AVAILABLE HAD THE AWB BEEN IN EFFECT. Remember, the AR-15 was designed for military training...an ASSAULT RIFLE CLASSIFICATION GIVEN BY MANUFACTURER AND MILITARY. And quite frankly, the small difference in classification is of little comfort to the families of the 17 victims in Florida.

    I agree with you regarding the FBI and local cops, BUT if the AWB was in place, their competence would never had to be tested.
    During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.

    George Orwell

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    Quote Originally Posted by Taichiliberal View Post
    the operative word, the key word in your response is SALES. Whether it was from the manufacturer or individual, the Assault Weapons Ban was implemented against both! And again, CRUZ DID NOT HAVE A WEAPON UNTIL HE BOUGHT ONE....long after the AWB expired in 2004.

    On this the OP stands valid, whether you like it or not. A matter of fact, a matter of history.
    the 04 AW ban did not prohibit private sales of weapons that were already in existence. if you don't know the law, please stop trying to argue that you do. your point is invalid as a matter of fact and history.
    A sad commentary on we, as a people, and our viewpoint of our freedom can be summed up like this. We have liberals and conservatives, Democrats and Republicans, yet those very people look at Constitutionalists as radical and extreme.................so those liberals and conservatives, Democrats and Republicans must believe that the constitution is radical and extreme.

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    In Cruz's case it was a failure of the FBI to follow up on a specific tip. did he not use a semi-automatic?
    You can't possibly outlaw all semis

    There is another thread about a temporary "gun violence restraining order" that makes sense.
    Objective criteria the person being investigated really is an imminent threat. That's a good idea

    https://www.justplainpolitics.com/sh...raining-orders

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peridot View Post
    Save us the same tired and fraudulent appeals to emotion, they have no place in a debate. What matters is facts, and the undeniable, immutable fact is that fewer people die from firearms every year, including children, and school shootings themselves are so statistically insignificant as to be discounted entirely. This is objective, dispassionate truth.
    And here is where your intellectual dishonesty comes to light: How in the world does repeating facts regarding the topic of discussion "fraudulent appeals to emotion"? I am not denying the set of facts you sourced...I am merely pointing to ANOTHER SET OF FACTS THAT DID NOT APPEAR IN YOUR SOURCE MATERIAL.

    Why are you trying to deny these? What possible motive could you have, as the OP gives simple solutions that could have prevented the tragedy in Florida recently?
    During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.

    George Orwell

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    Quote Originally Posted by noise View Post
    In Cruz's case it was a failure of the FBI to follow up on a specific tip. did he not use a semi-automatic?
    You can't possibly outlaw all semis

    There is another thread about a temporary "gun violence restraining order" that makes sense.
    Objective criteria the person being investigated really is an imminent threat. That's a good idea
    In Cruz's case, he purchased a weapon that for him made it easier to complete his task....a weapon that until 2004 was banned from sales to the civilian population.

    Yes, the FBI dropped the ball....a ball that would not have been in play had the AWB was in place.

    Go back and research the actual AWB law, as it did NOT ban all semis, as you allude to .
    During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.

    George Orwell

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    Quote Originally Posted by Taichiliberal View Post
    In Cruz's case, he purchased a weapon that for him made it easier to complete his task....a weapon that until 2004 was banned from sales to the civilian population.

    Yes, the FBI dropped the ball....a ball that would not have been in play had the AWB was in place.

    Go back and research the actual AWB law, as it did NOT ban all semis, as you allude to .
    I have limited interest in perusing gun laws. I hate the damn things.
    But the point is weapons restrictions only go so far- and they are easily challenged as un-Constitutional.

    That guys who shot up the black church in Charleston was making threats online and posing with Nazi paraphernalia.
    That should be enough to take his guns, or at least mandate psychological follow up.
    And then take his guns

    It's more effective and "more" Constitutional to go after the situations/persons of interests, then pass gun laws that effect everyone
    I don't know how you were diverted / You were perverted too
    I don't know how you were inverted / No one alerted you

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    Quote Originally Posted by SmarterthanYou View Post
    the 04 AW ban did not prohibit private sales of weapons that were already in existence. if you don't know the law, please stop trying to argue that you do. your point is invalid as a matter of fact and history.
    True enough, and I did not specify such (I was referring to AFTER the law went into effect). But as we know Cruz DID NOT BUY HIS WEAPON FROM A PRIVATE CITIZEN, he went through the background check via a licensed dealer.

    So once again, the OP stands valid. Try as you might, you can't debunk it...because despite what is out there on the individual level, NOT adding to the potential problem through another venue makes sense.
    During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.

    George Orwell

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    Quote Originally Posted by noise View Post
    I have limited interest in perusing gun laws. I hate the damn things.
    But the point is weapons restrictions only go so far- and they are easily challenged as un-Constitutional.

    That guys who shot up the black church in Charleston was making threats online and posing with Nazi paraphernalia.
    That should be enough to take his guns, or at least mandate psychological follow up.
    And then take his guns

    It's more effective and "more" Constitutional to go after the situations/persons of interests, then pass gun laws that effect everyone
    Bottom line: the OP suggestions would cover your statements and remain firmly "constitutional". Remember, the AWB was constitutionally sound, the GOP had the votes to just let it expire and not renew it (on bended knee to the NRA lobby).
    During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.

    George Orwell

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    Quote Originally Posted by Taichiliberal View Post
    Bottom line: the OP suggestions would cover your statements and remain firmly "constitutional". Remember, the AWB was constitutionally sound, the GOP had the votes to just let it expire and not renew it (on bended knee to the NRA lobby).
    even the AWB can be changed with a change of SCOTUS. But i take your point on the ban.
    I think it's much more effective, and less intrusive on Constitutional rights to use situational criteria to ban sales and possessions.

    It just seems to me as a casual observer of the problem that we usually find lots of indicators that should have been utilized to prevent guns sales/possessions -after the fact. We need to be much more proactive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Taichiliberal View Post
    Not to be callus, an AR-15 style rifle (Smith & Wesson M&P 15 .223) that Cruz had and a straight out AR-15 ARE STILL ASSAULT RIFLES THAT WOULD HAVE NOT BEEN AVAILABLE HAD THE AWB BEEN IN EFFECT. Remember, the AR-15 was designed for military training...an ASSAULT RIFLE CLASSIFICATION GIVEN BY MANUFACTURER AND MILITARY. And quite frankly, the small difference in classification is of little comfort to the families of the 17 victims in Florida.

    I agree with you regarding the FBI and local cops, BUT if the AWB was in place, their competence would never had to be tested.
    Makes no difference at all....how the gun looks is totally irrelevant....they all operate the same way.....its scary looks does not make it any deadlier than any
    other semi auto.....several use magazines just like the AR but don't look quite as 'military looking' as the AR....
    How it was designed to look was for military training but again irrelevant.....and it looks like it does because they were trying to sell it to the military ...the that weapon
    would be fully automatic capable....

    List of assault rifles - Wikipedia

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_assault_rifles


    An assault rifle is a rifle that uses an intermediate cartridge, has the capacity to switch between semiautomatic/fully automatic fire and a detachable magazine.
    the AR sold in stores does not have this capability....but does have a detachable magazine....
    Other than having a detachable magazine, an AR15 is no different than any other semi auto rifle...if that is your hangup, ban the magazine or limit its capacity if


    it makes you feel better....ammo clips are, in reality, nothing more than smaller capacity magazines and can be changed in 2 or 3 seconds...


    An ammunition clip is a device used to store individual rounds of ammunition together as a single unit that is then ready for insertion into the magazine of a gun. A clip is a very simple device that is usually made of a steel stamping. There are various kinds of clips, the most common of which are called *en bloc clips (left) and stripper clips (right).
    Again, these devices are used for loading ammunition into the magazine, which then feeds the individual rounds into the firing chamber.
    For rifles with an internal magazine, the clip loads the bullets into the firearm itself (see image below).
    Some rifles with detachable magazines can be loaded with clips, but this is relatively uncommon.


    Educate yourself....
    http://www.thefirearms.guide/blog/ed.../assault-rifle
    Last edited by NOVA; 02-18-2018 at 12:01 AM.
    Put blame where it belongs
    ATF decided it could not regulate bump stocks during the Obama administration.
    It that time," the NRA wrote in a statement. "The NRA believes that devices designed to allow semiautomatic rifles to function like fully-automatic rifles should be subject to additional regulations."
    The ATF and Obama admin. ignored the NRA recommendations.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Peridot View Post
    Fewer die every year, so the current system is just fine. In fact there is a inverse correlation between the popularity of sporting rifles and violent crime in general.
    Bullshit

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