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Thread: What do you think of gun violence restraining orders?

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    Quote Originally Posted by SmarterthanYou View Post
    is it your contention that the mere image posing a 'threat' (defined by who?) is enough to not only suspend and deny a right, but to arrest that person before a crime is ever committed?
    Arrest? Wtf are you taking about?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Timshel View Post
    So you would be okay if the FBI had acted but it's not okay if family and the courts do? Why?
    a process such as proposed in the OP is ripe for major abuse to people who may have done absolutely nothing.
    A sad commentary on we, as a people, and our viewpoint of our freedom can be summed up like this. We have liberals and conservatives, Democrats and Republicans, yet those very people look at Constitutionalists as radical and extreme.................so those liberals and conservatives, Democrats and Republicans must believe that the constitution is radical and extreme.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SmarterthanYou View Post
    a process such as proposed in the OP is ripe for major abuse to people who may have done absolutely nothing.
    That is not an argument. Explain, what sort of abuses.

    How would leaving it in the hands of the FBI prevent these abuses?
    Leviticus 19:33 And if a stranger sojourn with thee in your land, ye shall not do him wrong. 34 The stranger that sojourneth with you shall be unto you as the homeborn among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Timshel View Post
    That is not an argument. Explain, what sort of abuses.
    on a weekly basis there are men who are accused of domestic violence against estranged spouses intent on causing any harm that they can because they've been scorned. Others get accused of child molestation by angry and separated wives or girlfriends. some people think that this is an OK price to pay to protect lives.......until it's you that stands accused.

    Quote Originally Posted by Timshel View Post
    How would leaving it in the hands of the FBI prevent these abuses?
    it doesn't, and I don't believe in leaving it to the FBI either. they suck even worse.
    A sad commentary on we, as a people, and our viewpoint of our freedom can be summed up like this. We have liberals and conservatives, Democrats and Republicans, yet those very people look at Constitutionalists as radical and extreme.................so those liberals and conservatives, Democrats and Republicans must believe that the constitution is radical and extreme.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SmarterthanYou View Post
    on a weekly basis there are men who are accused of domestic violence against estranged spouses intent on causing any harm that they can because they've been scorned. Others get accused of child molestation by angry and separated wives or girlfriends. some people think that this is an OK price to pay to protect lives.......until it's you that stands accused.
    And an accusation would not be enough. An estranged spouse would not even be able to petition for one based on the limits noted by French (the author).

    Quote Originally Posted by SmarterthanYou View Post
    it doesn't, and I don't believe in leaving it to the FBI either. they suck even worse.
    So then what were you talking about here...

    Quote Originally Posted by SmarterthanYou View Post
    why must people insist of further restricting the rights and freedoms of others because of government failure?
    In context it sure seems like you were talking about the failure of the FBI.
    Leviticus 19:33 And if a stranger sojourn with thee in your land, ye shall not do him wrong. 34 The stranger that sojourneth with you shall be unto you as the homeborn among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Timshel View Post
    And an accusation would not be enough. An estranged spouse would not even be able to petition for one based on the limits noted by French (the author).
    so let me see if I understand this process.....man gets accused......is he arrested to await a hearing? served with notice to appear yet keeps his weapons? what happens upon the accusation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Timshel View Post
    So then what were you talking about here...
    In context it sure seems like you were talking about the failure of the FBI.
    I speak of every level of government, local to federal. government is full of fail.
    A sad commentary on we, as a people, and our viewpoint of our freedom can be summed up like this. We have liberals and conservatives, Democrats and Republicans, yet those very people look at Constitutionalists as radical and extreme.................so those liberals and conservatives, Democrats and Republicans must believe that the constitution is radical and extreme.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SmarterthanYou View Post
    so let me see if I understand this process.....man gets accused......is he arrested to await a hearing? served with notice to appear yet keeps his weapons? what happens upon the accusation?



    I speak of every level of government, local to federal. government is full of fail.
    check out the full article at the link in the OP. Not saying it's the answer but it's a different way to possibly attack the problem.

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    Quote Originally Posted by iewitness View Post
    SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED ? if you give the damned the consent to "deem" a person incapable; you will "deem" most everyone "incapable'. I will stick to my God given right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. I love shooting and being a deterrent to the damned. gun owners are "winning" in that the damned are being punked and i am laughing. I am. these are all productions/ great delusion. I do love them little rascals. ..
    Your god is AWOL. Do you really think he/she/it values your need to possess a popgun to make you feel more of a man more than rhe lives of children?

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    Quote Originally Posted by SmarterthanYou View Post
    so let me see if I understand this process.....man gets accused......is he arrested to await a hearing? served with notice to appear yet keeps his weapons? what happens upon the accusation?
    There is no arrest. It's just like a restraining order. Someone petitions for a hearing, they bring evidence before a judge and the target of the order is given an opportunity to answer.



    Quote Originally Posted by SmarterthanYou View Post
    I speak of every level of government, local to federal. government is full of fail.
    Yet you would complain if they acted? What is it you want them to do? Have armed guards everywhere?
    Leviticus 19:33 And if a stranger sojourn with thee in your land, ye shall not do him wrong. 34 The stranger that sojourneth with you shall be unto you as the homeborn among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Timshel View Post
    https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/...consider-grvo/

    Time and again mass shooters give off warning signals. They issue generalized threats. They post disturbing images. They exhibit fascination with mass killings. But before the deadly act itself, there is no clear path to denying them access to guns. Though people can report their concerns to authorities, sometimes those authorities fail or have limited tools to deal with the emerging danger.

    What if, however, there was an evidence-based process for temporarily denying a troubled person access to guns? What if this process empowered family members and others close to a potential shooter, allowing them to “do something” after they “see something” and “say something”? I’ve written that the best line of defense against mass shootings is an empowered, vigilant citizenry. There is a method that has the potential to empower citizens even more, when it’s carefully and properly implemented.


    ...


    The great benefit of the GVRO is that it provides citizens with options other than relying on, say, the FBI. As the bureau admitted today, it did not respond appropriately to a timely warning from a “person close to Nikolas Cruz.” According the FBI, that person provided “information about Cruz’s gun ownership, desire to kill people, erratic behavior, and disturbing social media posts, as well as the potential of him conducting a school shooting.”


    In other words, it appears the FBI received exactly the kind of information that would justify granting a GVRO.


    Just since 2015, the Charleston church shooter, the Orlando nightclub shooter, the Sutherland Springs church shooter, and the Parkland school shooter each happened after federal authorities missed chances to stop them. For those keeping score, that’s four horrific mass shootings in four years where federal systems failed, at a cost of more than 100 lives.
    In the last to mass shootings the government failed and your response is to put more faith in therm. When are you going to stop putting faith in an entity that you admit can't do the job?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Timshel View Post
    There is no arrest. It's just like a restraining order. Someone petitions for a hearing, they bring evidence before a judge and the target of the order is given an opportunity to answer.
    my other question didn't get answered. from the time of complaint to the time of hearing adjudication, what happens to said firearms?

    Quote Originally Posted by Timshel View Post
    Yet you would complain if they acted? What is it you want them to do? Have armed guards everywhere?
    the right of self defense applies to everyone. what stops a woman from carrying their own gun?
    A sad commentary on we, as a people, and our viewpoint of our freedom can be summed up like this. We have liberals and conservatives, Democrats and Republicans, yet those very people look at Constitutionalists as radical and extreme.................so those liberals and conservatives, Democrats and Republicans must believe that the constitution is radical and extreme.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Timshel View Post
    WTF???

    The second amendment does not preclude this. Some restraining orders require the surrender of guns now. Ex felons are not usually free to get guns.

    No, not everyone would be deemed "incapable". Did you bother to read any of what I posted or the article?
    The things you've mentioned, require a Court order; but a Court order is not required to be placed on the no-fly list and being on the no-fly list prohibits you from buying firearms.
    Last edited by USFREEDOM911; 02-18-2018 at 02:57 PM.
    SEDITION: incitement of resistance to or insurrection against lawful authority.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Timshel View Post
    Where? What is it?

    They have these in California and Washington. AFAIK, nowhere else.
    So you're suggesting that except for those two States no one can request a court order, in any other State, to judge a person's capabilities?
    SEDITION: incitement of resistance to or insurrection against lawful authority.


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    Quote Originally Posted by domer76 View Post
    Your god is AWOL. Do you really think he/she/it values your need to possess a popgun to make you feel more of a man more than rhe lives of children?
    He hasn't left you, you have left him.
    SEDITION: incitement of resistance to or insurrection against lawful authority.


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    Quote Originally Posted by USFREEDOM911 View Post
    He hasn't left you, you have left him.

    We have the intellect to imagine the finality of our own demise but do not have the sophistication to overcome our survival instinct and accept it.
    Solution? Magical thinking and childish promises of everlasting life.
    Ergo, religion.

    rac·ist
    rāsəst/noun
    a person who believes that a particular race is superior to another.
    Ask yourself honestly if this describes what you believe to be true.
    If the answer is yes, you are a racist.

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