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Thread: WH official says that Florida shooter shouldn’t have had a gun

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    Quote Originally Posted by Havana Moon View Post
    Jesus, you're one stupid mofo!

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    I'm not Jesus.

    Seems to me you're a cowardly motherfucker and I'm using the standard YOU set.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Havana Moon View Post
    I would also advocate a national database that records all gun transactions and matches owners to serial numbers. Anyone caught with a weapon, not on that database, should be subject to a jail sentence. There should also be a hotline to report people with mental problems who have weapons.

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    trump rescinded an Obama regulation that would have made it easier to block the sale of firearms to people with certain mental illnesses.


    “What greater gift than the love of a cat.”
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havana Moon View Post
    You don't seem to mind me "sticking my nose in" when you agree with me though.

    What is the consequence of restricting the ATF's use of data?
    The ATF*processes a high number of trace requests: 372,992 last year alone. The agency says a trace takes on average four to seven business days to complete.

    If it wasn't for the ban on consolidating data into a searchable system, the ATF could create a database that allowed investigators to immediately check the sales history of any gun used in a crime. The National Trace Center itself, and its 300-plus employees, likely would be obsolete if the ATF were permitted to create a modern, searchable database.

    Still, the ATF claims the current system is adequate. "ATF considers the process in place efficient, especially when you consider that most urgent traces are completed within hours—if not minutes—of the request," Ray said.

    But Vizzard, the former ATF special agent, says that by shackling the agency, Congress is hindering police investigations. "It's a 1950s record-keeping system in 2016," he said. "It's as though your bank still didn't have a computer."

    A version of this article was originally published by the*Trace, a nonprofit news organization covering guns in America. Sign*up*for*the newsletter, or follow the Trace on*Facebook*or*Twitter.
    No need to get your nose bent- I only meant, that it seems you have a gun problem in Europe- your outrage would be better spent where you actually have influence.

    Updating an archaic tracking system is all good and fine. YOU STILL won't be able to prevent illegal gun sales! My first post to you on this matter was specifically that this young man intended to kill and he was going to do that. They already know he had plans to build a bomb. He could have purchased a gun illegally. All the laws in the world do not prevent criminals from taking criminal action.

    What prevents criminals from taking criminal action? Other citizens who are armed? A police force who act on tips about the criminal? A society who Embraces and cares for one another?
    TRUMP! TRUMP! TRUMP! TRUMP! TRUMP! TRUMP! TRUMP!

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    Quote Originally Posted by J Craft View Post
    Buying a gun illegally isn't difficult. How do you think ex felons obtain guns?
    Presumably they ignore the background checks and buy them from an illegal dealer or steal them during home invasions.
    Excellence is an art won by training and habituation. We do not act rightly because we have virtue or excellence, but rather we have those because we have acted rightly. We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit.
    - -- Aristotle

    Believe nothing on the faith of traditions, even though they have been held in honor for many generations and in diverse places. Do not believe a thing because many people speak of it. Do not believe on the faith of the sages of the past. Do not believe what you yourself have imagined, persuading yourself that a God inspires you. Believe nothing on the sole authority of your masters and priests. After examination, believe what you yourself have tested and found to be reasonable, and conform your conduct thereto.
    - -- The Buddha

    It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Damocles View Post
    Presumably they ignore the background checks and buy them from an illegal dealer or steal them during home invasions.
    There was a recent thread on the topic of gun dealers ignoring the results of background checks and still selling the gun. I don't know any that would. What they'd make by selling a thousand of them illegally would't come close to what it would cost them if just one misused the gun and it was discovered what the dealer did.

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    Quote Originally Posted by J Craft View Post
    No need to get your nose bent- I only meant, that it seems you have a gun problem in Europe- your outrage would be better spent where you actually have influence.

    Updating an archaic tracking system is all good and fine. YOU STILL won't be able to prevent illegal gun sales! My first post to you on this matter was specifically that this young man intended to kill and he was going to do that. They already know he had plans to build a bomb. He could have purchased a gun illegally. All the laws in the world do not prevent criminals from taking criminal action.

    What prevents criminals from taking criminal action? Other citizens who are armed? A police force who act on tips about the criminal? A society who Embraces and cares for one another?
    Yes maybe he could have purchased one illegally? But instead he just walked into a gunshop and bought one legally despite his mental history.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CFM View Post
    There was a recent thread on the topic of gun dealers ignoring the results of background checks and still selling the gun. I don't know any that would. What they'd make by selling a thousand of them illegally would't come close to what it would cost them if just one misused the gun and it was discovered what the dealer did.
    Yeah, that doesn't happen unless the ATF tells them to sell them to Mexican drug lords so they can "track" them magically with no trackers attached (see Fast and Furious program for details). Their livelihoods are at stake as well as the incredible amount of liability and prison time they face if they ignore the results of these background checks.
    Excellence is an art won by training and habituation. We do not act rightly because we have virtue or excellence, but rather we have those because we have acted rightly. We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit.
    - -- Aristotle

    Believe nothing on the faith of traditions, even though they have been held in honor for many generations and in diverse places. Do not believe a thing because many people speak of it. Do not believe on the faith of the sages of the past. Do not believe what you yourself have imagined, persuading yourself that a God inspires you. Believe nothing on the sole authority of your masters and priests. After examination, believe what you yourself have tested and found to be reasonable, and conform your conduct thereto.
    - -- The Buddha

    It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
    - -- Aristotle

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    Quote Originally Posted by Havana Moon View Post
    Yes maybe he could have purchased one illegally? But instead he just walked into a gunshop and bought one legally despite his mental history.

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    HIPAA laws. The problem is the results of your mental history are not available for the perusal of anybody at all. We need to find a different way than a checkmark box on a form to tell, much like we need to do for voter roles. IMO.
    Excellence is an art won by training and habituation. We do not act rightly because we have virtue or excellence, but rather we have those because we have acted rightly. We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit.
    - -- Aristotle

    Believe nothing on the faith of traditions, even though they have been held in honor for many generations and in diverse places. Do not believe a thing because many people speak of it. Do not believe on the faith of the sages of the past. Do not believe what you yourself have imagined, persuading yourself that a God inspires you. Believe nothing on the sole authority of your masters and priests. After examination, believe what you yourself have tested and found to be reasonable, and conform your conduct thereto.
    - -- The Buddha

    It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
    - -- Aristotle

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    Quote Originally Posted by Damocles View Post
    HIPAA laws. The problem is the results of your mental history are not available for the perusal of anybody at all.
    Seems as if at every turn there is a law to prevent loonys getting weapons.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Havana Moon View Post
    Seems as if at every turn there is a law to prevent loonys getting weapons.

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    There is not the need for more laws. They just need to actually enforce the ones that are already there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Havana Moon View Post
    No, I advocate a database tracking all guns. At the moment the ATF have to do a manual search involving a paper chase and phone calls to trace a gun. That is just archaic in this day and age.
    the ATF has no clue about how many or what kind of guns I own because none of them were bought from an FFL. how do you like me now?
    A sad commentary on we, as a people, and our viewpoint of our freedom can be summed up like this. We have liberals and conservatives, Democrats and Republicans, yet those very people look at Constitutionalists as radical and extreme.................so those liberals and conservatives, Democrats and Republicans must believe that the constitution is radical and extreme.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SmarterthanYou View Post
    the ATF has no clue about how many or what kind of guns I own because none of them were bought from an FFL. how do you like me now?
    That should be made illegal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Damocles View Post
    Presumably they ignore the background checks and buy them from an illegal dealer or steal them during home invasions.
    We need to ask them to register those stolen and illegally obtained guns for our databases.
    TRUMP! TRUMP! TRUMP! TRUMP! TRUMP! TRUMP! TRUMP!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Damocles View Post
    Yeah, that doesn't happen unless the ATF tells them to sell them to Mexican drug lords so they can "track" them magically with no trackers attached (see Fast and Furious program for details). Their livelihoods are at stake as well as the incredible amount of liability and prison time they face if they ignore the results of these background checks.
    Is it possible one is stupid enough to do that and ignore background checks. Sure. I don't know any.

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    Quote Originally Posted by christiefan915 View Post
    trump rescinded an Obama regulation that would have made it easier to block the sale of firearms to people with certain mental illnesses.
    I hope he rescinded ALL Obama regulations.......if you want blocks tell the demmycrats in Congress to propose reasonable blocks.......

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