Guns make for a more civilized society

[Rune]

That whole arguement is bogus, if it were true, we would be the safest nation in the world, we got more guns than people and yet we lead the developed nations in the number of citizens killed by guns per year, thirty thousand plus, the numbers alone make it erroneous

Never understood why some people are obsessed with the notion that they are going be mugged or that Attila and the Huns are going to be stopping by, probability is that if you are a victim of gun violence it is perpetuated by someone you know, and having a gun in the house multiplies considerably the chances

Having a gun in the house multiplies the chance that a gun is your weapon of choice when you choose to do violence. Accidentall gun deaths are usually an act of natural selection.


By the way, we are the safest country in the world. We are immune to invasion, because we are a citizen army.
The unenrolled militia, which is the actual militia named in the second.

This is the context of the statement in my signature.
I don't know where you live but in New Hampshire where everyone is usually carrying a weapon, there is very little crime, pretty much no road rage, in fact most people are just respectful and well behaved.

[Rune]

That scares me that you don’t have to show competence with your weapon.

Not even close to true in most stares plus there are lots of Federal gun laws as well.

[Rune]

Most gun owners *are* law-abiding ppl. The problem is most of them do not use trigger guards, nor keep their guns in a gun safe, or otherwise secured.

If you want everyone to have a gun, then why not some sensible requirements, like we do with cars?
1. All guns must be purchased from a licensed dealer.
2. Background checks, no exceptions, no excuses.
3. Mandatory trigger guards.
4. Mandatory gun safe.
5. Liability insurance in case one of your guys is lost, stolen, or used in a suicide or a crime or an accident resulting in injury/death.
6. Mandatory gun handling and safety training at owner's expense, renewable every other year.
7. Database with all guns and owners that only law enforcement can access.

I'm sure you can think of others.

I've got to head off to class in a few minutes; looking forward to continuing this civil discussion. Hopefully the crazies won't show up and ruin it.

Those are already laws.
And there are hundreds of thousands of more laws.
What state are you in?
The Op is correct, the Left needs to have this discussion.
To deny that mental illness in one form or another is a major factor in most gun violence, then insist that mental
illness isn't the problem, only guns are the problem is entirely hypocritical.
Nevermind the deeper reasons, the political weakness of tje party, caused by it's stance on guns.
If I was a single issue voter I would have to vote GOP, but many are single issue voters
and there numbers are large.
These are people who likely would be Dems if the Dems were working to promote strong unions and not licking the balls of Wall Street bankers and building private for profit prisons, (an abomination).

Clearly the Dems have lost their way.
The Clintons are gone though and their Globalist, further right than Reagan pipedream must stay dispersed.
The party must return to it's roots and turn away from Wall Street and run an honest democracy but you will not be in the majority without gun owners.

[Sirthinksalot]

Most gun owners *are* law-abiding ppl. The problem is most of them do not use trigger guards, nor keep their guns in a gun safe, or otherwise secured.

If you want everyone to have a gun, then why not some sensible requirements, like we do with cars?
1. All guns must be purchased from a licensed dealer.
2. Background checks, no exceptions, no excuses.
3. Mandatory trigger guards.
4. Mandatory gun safe.
5. Liability insurance in case one of your guys is lost, stolen, or used in a suicide or a crime or an accident resulting in injury/death.
6. Mandatory gun handling and safety training at owner's expense, renewable every other year.
7. Database with all guns and owners that only law enforcement can access.

I'm sure you can think of others.

I've got to head off to class in a few minutes; looking forward to continuing this civil discussion. Hopefully the crazies won't show up and ruin it.

This sounds very expensive and would make gun ownership cost prohibitive for a lot of Americans. Do you think only the wealthy should be allowed to own firearms?

[Sirthinksalot]

What is the purpose of a gun? To kill. Do citizens need to kill each other? No - it is just a way in which the totally feeble can feel strong. Some citizens enjoy killing animals? Is this a reason to allow many other citizens to be killed? NO.

Good thing you're safe in not-so-great Britain where guns are mostly illegal.

[Sirthinksalot]

No, you don't have to even be sighted.

I own several guns, including two shotguns, a .22 rifle, a .357 revolver, and 4 non-revolver handguns which I've never fired. I used to have a .308 as well but gave it away because I don't hunt. These guns all belonged to my late husband. He had a concealed carry permit. At that time you actually had to take a class and be able to hit a target 7 yards away. I inherited them all. I'd sell them today if I knew someone sane would buy them.

You probably should have undergone a background check from a licensed dealer and paid said dealer a fee for each gun and been required to take an 8 hour gun safety course. Plus show proof that you had working trigger locks, a gun safe to store them in and liability insurance for them. And get registered in a database. Oh, and adhere to whatever other rules people come up with. All before you could inherit your deceased husband's gun collection. Amarite???

[iolo]

because stupid fucksticks, like you and domer, won't accept that reality of inalienable rights and limited government. you are beholden to the slave state mentality of only being allowed to do what the government tells you that you can do.

Even under the tories we are still hugely freer than you brainwashed buggers.

[iolo]

What do you know about the NRA? You blaming the NRA for what? If it's gun crime, maybe
you can start now and name just one NRA member who was convicted for ANY gun crime.

Well, they wouldn't be, would they, any more than AIPAC has to answer for all the murdered Palestinians? Talk sense.

[iolo]

Good thing you're safe in not-so-great Britain where guns are mostly illegal.

It is 'Great' Britain simply to distinguish it from 'Little Britain', Britanny. Yes, we are a lot better off here.

[RB 60]

Well, they wouldn't be, would they, any more than AIPAC has to answer for all the murdered Palestinians? Talk sense.

My questions were sense, answer them.

[iolo]

My questions were sense, answer them.

I went back to look, and I have.

[RB 60]

I went back to look, and I have.

My questions weren't asked in riddles. Why were your "answers" riddled?

[Rune]

I'm all for guns for protection, but why did we ever let the public start buying up weapons of warfare for protection? Those aren't means of protection. You can't use one of those things simply enough to protect yourself, or even do so without risking casualties.

All it really gives you, is this kind of effect.

It makes you seem more dangerous to others, but a simple pistol will be way more effective for protection.

Have you even read the second ammendment?
Have you heard of the unenrolled militia?

[Rune]

Well, there goes the hope that the gunhumpers wouldn't show up and spoil this formerly-civil discussion with their bullshit.

I *do* know the law, where I used to live, as it pertains to concealed carry. Well, as it *used* to pertain to concealed carry. You used to have to take a mandatory 8 hour training class, pass a background check, and show that you could hit a target 7 yards away. My late husband was the second person in our county to get the permit.

Now in Missouri to openly or concealed carry, you just show up at the licensed gun dealer, pick out your weapon, pay your money, give them the required data for the background check, and once that goes through... you too can strut around Target or Denny's with your wonderful shiny new dick substitute. Because you never know when you'll be called upon to shoot a shoplifter running off with a pair of jeans or a bag of chips.

Covfefe wanted to know if you have to pass some sort of proficiency test to buy a firearm. No, you do not... not in any state that I know of anyways. She did not ask about concealed or open carry permits.

You are wrong about your knowledge of gun laws, sorry.
The fact is you are greatly ill-informed.

[ThatOwlWoman]

You are wrong about your knowledge of gun laws, sorry.
The fact is you are greatly ill-informed.

As I mentioned, I was relating the law as it was when we lived there (Missouri). I am unfamiliar with the gun permitting/carrying laws in our current state (Michigan). I have seen signs posted for concealed carry classes here, which makes me think that there is still a requirement to take a course to get a CC permit, but I don't know for sure.