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Thread: America was not founded on....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Right View Post
    Yes, really. Give me an example. I'll understand if you can't.
    Just did, unless your as thick as you appear obstinate

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    Quote Originally Posted by RB 60 View Post
    Well, it wasn't Allah, so it must be mine.
    I would take Islam any day over trash like you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by archives View Post
    Just did, unless your as thick as you appear obstinate
    The was a question, not an answer. You appear to be willing to make allegations but not be specific. Here's your chance to confront the religious right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by midcan5 View Post
    So many myths dominate American discourse today and religion is one of the big sticks.

    “the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion.”

    "Speaking at a rally on the steps of the U.S. Capitol on May 16, 1920, Baptist theologian George Washington Truett proudly declared that the separation of church and state was “preeminently a Baptist achievement.”

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlo...74d_story.html

    "The Real Origins of the Religious Right - They’ll tell you it was abortion. Sorry, the historical record’s clear: It was segregation.""

    https://www.politico.com/magazine/st...origins-107133

    "But the abortion myth quickly collapses under historical scrutiny. In fact, it wasn’t until 1979—a full six years after Roe—that evangelical leaders, at the behest of conservative activist Paul Weyrich, seized on abortion not for moral reasons, but as a rallying-cry to deny President Jimmy Carter a second term. Why? Because the anti-abortion crusade was more palatable than the religious right’s real motive: protecting segregated schools."


    "The abuse of women and girls is the most pervasive and unaddressed human rights violation on earth." Jimmy Carter


    "Abolition of a woman's right to abortion, when and if she wants it, amounts to compulsory maternity: a form of rape by the State." Edward Abbey
    Great post.... thanks.

    I find it both puzzling and amusing that the Religious Right has screeched for years about the decline of America due to debauchery, immorality, and turning away from Gawd. Yet now we have purported Christian ministers praising Roy Moore and signing statements that he's a fine upstanding person. Same with Trump. A truly devout person would find Trump's behaviors and words the very antithesis of what Christ desired for His followers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RB 60 View Post
    It was founded on God, Guns and Guts. Liberals hate all three.
    What a moron.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Right View Post
    Examples?
    May I?

    The continual anti-choice clamor from the religious right.
    The demands to teach "creationism" alongside evolution in public school science classes.
    The continual whining about prayer in public schools.
    Attempting to insert into State constitutions (and talk about the U.S. Constitution as well) language meant to deny same-sex couples the right to legal marriage
    Religious Freedom acts passed by states allowing public businesses to discriminate against LGBT and others based on religious reasons
    The annual whining about the faux war on Xmas and outrage that public buildings either cannot put up manger scenes, or must allow other faiths to share the limelight.
    Insistence on prayer to begin local government meetings.
    And how can we forget Roy "Come here little girl" Moore's bullshit about the 10 Commandments hung in the courthouse?

    That enough for you?

    While you ponder these, I'll go load my cyber shotgun with coarse ground sea salt for RB when he comes blowing by to say I hate all Christians because.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatOwlWoman View Post
    May I?

    The continual anti-choice clamor from the religious right.
    The demands to teach "creationism" alongside evolution in public school science classes.
    The continual whining about prayer in public schools.
    Attempting to insert into State constitutions (and talk about the U.S. Constitution as well) language meant to deny same-sex couples the right to legal marriage
    Religious Freedom acts passed by states allowing public businesses to discriminate against LGBT and others based on religious reasons
    The annual whining about the faux war on Xmas and outrage that public buildings either cannot put up manger scenes, or must allow other faiths to share the limelight.
    Insistence on prayer to begin local government meetings.
    And how can we forget Roy "Come here little girl" Moore's bullshit about the 10 Commandments hung in the courthouse?

    That enough for you?

    While you ponder these, I'll go load my cyber shotgun with coarse ground sea salt for RB when he comes blowing by to say I hate all Christians because.
    Go to hell, skank.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatOwlWoman View Post
    May I?

    [1] The continual anti-choice clamor from the religious right.
    [2] The demands to teach "creationism" alongside evolution in public school science classes.
    [3] The continual whining about prayer in public schools.
    [4] Attempting to insert into State constitutions (and talk about the U.S. Constitution as well) language meant to deny same-sex couples the right to legal marriage
    [5] Religious Freedom acts passed by states allowing public businesses to discriminate against LGBT and others based on religious reasons
    [6] The annual whining about the faux war on Xmas and outrage that public buildings either cannot put up manger scenes, or must allow other faiths to share the limelight.
    [7] Insistence on prayer to begin local government meetings.
    [8] And how can we forget Roy "Come here little girl" Moore's bullshit about the 10 Commandments hung in the courthouse?

    That enough for you?

    While you ponder these, I'll go load my cyber shotgun with coarse ground sea salt for RB when he comes blowing by to say I hate all Christians because.
    1. That's a human right issue. Do you think late term abortions are OK?
    2. That was never a federal issue. Conservatives want the feds out of education entirely. Religious righties like me want the churches to educate our kids about creationism, not public schools.
    3. See item 2.
    4. The conservative position is that both FedCo and StateCo shouldn't be in the marriage business at all.
    5. That's also an issue of personal freedom. The conservative position is that any business should be able to refuse to serve anyone they want, then let the market decide. I can't help but notice that liberals never have a problem with a Muslim owned business refusing to serve gays.
    6. That's been going on my entire life. The conservative position is that public land should be able to be used by private groups and their displays in accordance with a reasonable permitting process.
    7. Entirely the decision of the local body. Spare me the faux outrage.
    8. The Ten is on the Supremes building, East Wall Frieze. I don't see the problem.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RB 60 View Post
    Go to hell, skank.
    ^ Typical reply from your typical old white RWNJ "patriot" who just had his ass served to him by an even older white Libtard female. This is how we know when we have scored a point. Too bad scoring points in this game doesn't lead to any sort of actual intelligent thought patterns that lead to a moment of truth.

    And here I thought that conservative men prided themselves on acting respectful towards wimminfolk. Oh wait. Roy Moore. Donald Trump. Never mind.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RB 60 View Post
    Go to hell, skank.
    How Christian! :-)

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatOwlWoman View Post
    ^ Typical reply from your typical old white RWNJ "patriot" who just had his ass served to him by an even older white Libtard female. This is how we know when we have scored a point. Too bad scoring points in this game doesn't lead to any sort of actual intelligent thought patterns that lead to a moment of truth.

    And here I thought that conservative men prided themselves on acting respectful towards wimminfolk. Oh wait. Roy Moore. Donald Trump. Never mind.
    I think you're wrong,Moore dates children, and Trump dates daughters:-)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Right View Post
    1. That's a human right issue. Do you think late term abortions are OK?
    2. That was never a federal issue. Conservatives want the feds out of education entirely. Religious righties like me want the churches to educate our kids about creationism, not public schools.
    3. See item 2.
    4. The conservative position is that both FedCo and StateCo shouldn't be in the marriage business at all.
    5. That's also an issue of personal freedom. The conservative position is that any business should be able to refuse to serve anyone they want, then let the market decide. I can't help but notice that liberals never have a problem with a Muslim owned business refusing to serve gays.
    6. That's been going on my entire life. The conservative position is that public land should be able to be used by private groups and their displays in accordance with a reasonable permitting process.
    7. Entirely the decision of the local body. Spare me the faux outrage.
    8. The Ten is on the Supremes building, East Wall Frieze. I don't see the problem.
    Oh sweet!!! An actual intelligent reply from an actual intelligent conservative! Thank you very much. I'll try to respond to you point by point. I'll put your comments in italics.

    1. That's a human right issue. Do you think late term abortions are OK?


    Not unless 1) the health of the mother is at issue, and/or 2) the passenger is not viable. I am a nurse. I am also the mother of five amazing people and g-ma to nine more amazing people. My own life has been dedicated to life. That being said, I believe strongly that these decisions (to abort or not) are best left to the parties involved, and their physician. I have no issues of course with pro-life people providing education to prevent such a horrible thing as an abortion, or to offering alternatives (like adoption). I am dismayed though by the religious people's objections to birth control, and the constant battle to prevent it being paid for with public funds. If you loathe abortion, then logically shouldn't you be working to prevent conception in the first place? What are your thoughts on abortion rights?

    2. That was never a federal issue. Conservatives want the feds out of education entirely. Religious righties like me want the churches to educate our kids about creationism, not public schools.

    Outstanding.... a point of agreement. I also believe that religion is a private matter that should be up to the parents to teach at home/in church.... not in public schools. However, many conservatives worship at the altar of States Rights and want their state to mandate the teaching of creationism and other religious-based doctrine in public schools. Your thoughts on that?

    3. Been there, seen that. My youngest daughters had a civics (!) teacher who used to write Bible verses every morning on the classroom blackboard, in their public h.s. A hilarious story could ensue here, but for now.... your opinion on that?

    4. The conservative position is that both FedCo and StateCo shouldn't be in the marriage business at all.

    Can you explain then why this is so important to ppl on your side? I agree to a point.... and that point is taxes, social security, and other state/federal benefits that are attached to a person's marital status. If me and my husband are entitled to certain benefits due to our marital status, then in my point of view the same benefits should be available to our married friends Bill and Bob, and Jane and Jill. (And this is the point where many righties wander off into the realm of marrying your donkey or iguana or sister or whatever weirdness floats their canoe).

    5. That's also an issue of personal freedom. The conservative position is that any business should be able to refuse to serve anyone they want, then let the market decide. I can't help but notice that liberals never have a problem with a Muslim owned business refusing to serve gays.

    We tried that, back in the bad old days. It didn't work out so well for those without market spending power, did it? As far as the Muslim thing, I have not heard of any instances of such -- but if true I oppose that discrimination the same way I oppose an Xtian or a Wiccan or a Hindu doing the same. You want to do business in America? Fine! But don't use your religion or prejudice to discriminate against our citizens.

    6. That's been going on my entire life. The conservative position is that public land should be able to be used by private groups and their displays in accordance with a reasonable permitting process.

    But in real life, it's been a battle against the Christians and those who want equal time, as our country became more diverse. It wasn't an issue when I was a kid. There were Christmas displays everywhere.... our school, the little city hall, stores, etc. We had Christmas concerts in school (public) that included the beautiful religious songs as well as the lame commercial "Rudolf" type songs. Our neighbors were a mixed bag of highly-educated (PhD level) sci guys that included atheists, Jews, and one lone Hindu guy. The Jewish and Catholic kids got their religious holidays off from school, as well as all the Xtian ones. I don't recall anyone complaining. However, over time, things changed as our country became more and more diverse. I don't see this as a bad thing. I'd just as soon government remove itself far from things of a religious nature, and that spiritual people of all flavors be happy with that because it means true freedom. Your thoughts?

    7. Entirely the decision of the local body. Spare me the faux outrage.

    I could not care less if ppl want to pray before a meeting of the board of alderman or city council. That being said, if the locale includes active political people of a non-Xtian faith, I would want to see their flavor of prayer offered as well. If that's not acceptable, than no prayers at all. It's not like the gods give a shit anyways, eh?

    8. I don't care either.... but you have to admit that it's kind of humorous in a sad way.... to see the Champion of the Alabama Court's 10 Commandments accused of lewdness. Not surprising, but funny.


    Thanks for the chance for an actual civil discussion. I think we have points of agreement and points of divergence. But the fact that we can discuss in a rational manner like real people gives me hope.
    Last edited by ThatOwlWoman; 11-21-2017 at 08:41 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mason von Mason View Post
    How Christian! :-)
    Yep, great example of being Christlike, right there. lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatOwlWoman View Post
    May I?

    The continual anti-choice clamor from the religious right.
    The demands to teach "creationism" alongside evolution in public school science classes.
    The continual whining about prayer in public schools.
    Attempting to insert into State constitutions (and talk about the U.S. Constitution as well) language meant to deny same-sex couples the right to legal marriage
    Religious Freedom acts passed by states allowing public businesses to discriminate against LGBT and others based on religious reasons
    The annual whining about the faux war on Xmas and outrage that public buildings either cannot put up manger scenes, or must allow other faiths to share the limelight.
    Insistence on prayer to begin local government meetings.
    And how can we forget Roy "Come here little girl" Moore's bullshit about the 10 Commandments hung in the courthouse?

    That enough for you?

    While you ponder these, I'll go load my cyber shotgun with coarse ground sea salt for RB when he comes blowing by to say I hate all Christians because.
    hmm....most of that list sounds like a seeking equal treatment not someone forcing their views on others......as for forcing their views on others, wouldn't forcing society to recognize same sex marriages qualify?.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by PostmodernProphet View Post
    hmm....most of that list sounds like a seeking equal treatment not someone forcing their views on others......as for forcing their views on others, wouldn't forcing society to recognize same sex marriages qualify?.....
    I'm sure it does, to someone steeped and soaked in the majority... and who are now chagrined that we non-majority folks want to get a word in too.
    Have a nice evening, Post.

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