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Thread: America was not founded on....

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatOwlWoman View Post
    Oh sweet!!! An actual intelligent reply from an actual intelligent conservative! Thank you very much. I'll try to respond to you point by point. I'll put your comments in italics.

    1. That's a human right issue. Do you think late term abortions are OK?


    Not unless 1) the health of the mother is at issue, and/or 2) the passenger is not viable. I am a nurse. I am also the mother of five amazing people and g-ma to nine more amazing people. My own life has been dedicated to life. That being said, I believe strongly that these decisions (to abort or not) are best left to the parties involved, and their physician. I have no issues of course with pro-life people providing education to prevent such a horrible thing as an abortion, or to offering alternatives (like adoption). I am dismayed though by the religious people's objections to birth control, and the constant battle to prevent it being paid for with public funds. If you loathe abortion, then logically shouldn't you be working to prevent conception in the first place? What are your thoughts on abortion rights?

    2. That was never a federal issue. Conservatives want the feds out of education entirely. Religious righties like me want the churches to educate our kids about creationism, not public schools.

    Outstanding.... a point of agreement. I also believe that religion is a private matter that should be up to the parents to teach at home/in church.... not in public schools. However, many conservatives worship at the altar of States Rights and want their state to mandate the teaching of creationism and other religious-based doctrine in public schools. Your thoughts on that?

    3. Been there, seen that. My youngest daughters had a civics (!) teacher who used to write Bible verses every morning on the classroom blackboard, in their public h.s. A hilarious story could ensue here, but for now.... your opinion on that?

    4. The conservative position is that both FedCo and StateCo shouldn't be in the marriage business at all.

    Can you explain then why this is so important to ppl on your side? I agree to a point.... and that point is taxes, social security, and other state/federal benefits that are attached to a person's marital status. If me and my husband are entitled to certain benefits due to our marital status, then in my point of view the same benefits should be available to our married friends Bill and Bob, and Jane and Jill. (And this is the point where many righties wander off into the realm of marrying your donkey or iguana or sister or whatever weirdness floats their canoe).

    5. That's also an issue of personal freedom. The conservative position is that any business should be able to refuse to serve anyone they want, then let the market decide. I can't help but notice that liberals never have a problem with a Muslim owned business refusing to serve gays.

    We tried that, back in the bad old days. It didn't work out so well for those without market spending power, did it? As far as the Muslim thing, I have not heard of any instances of such -- but if true I oppose that discrimination the same way I oppose an Xtian or a Wiccan or a Hindu doing the same. You want to do business in America? Fine! But don't use your religion or prejudice to discriminate against our citizens.

    6. That's been going on my entire life. The conservative position is that public land should be able to be used by private groups and their displays in accordance with a reasonable permitting process.

    But in real life, it's been a battle against the Christians and those who want equal time, as our country became more diverse. It wasn't an issue when I was a kid. There were Christmas displays everywhere.... our school, the little city hall, stores, etc. We had Christmas concerts in school (public) that included the beautiful religious songs as well as the lame commercial "Rudolf" type songs. Our neighbors were a mixed bag of highly-educated (PhD level) sci guys that included atheists, Jews, and one lone Hindu guy. The Jewish and Catholic kids got their religious holidays off from school, as well as all the Xtian ones. I don't recall anyone complaining. However, over time, things changed as our country became more and more diverse. I don't see this as a bad thing. I'd just as soon government remove itself far from things of a religious nature, and that spiritual people of all flavors be happy with that because it means true freedom. Your thoughts?

    7. Entirely the decision of the local body. Spare me the faux outrage.

    I could not care less if ppl want to pray before a meeting of the board of alderman or city council. That being said, if the locale includes active political people of a non-Xtian faith, I would want to see their flavor of prayer offered as well. If that's not acceptable, than no prayers at all. It's not like the gods give a shit anyways, eh?

    8. I don't care either.... but you have to admit that it's kind of humorous in a sad way.... to see the Champion of the Alabama Court's 10 Commandments accused of lewdness. Not surprising, but funny.


    Thanks for the chance for an actual civil discussion. I think we have points of agreement and points of divergence. But the fact that we can discuss in a rational manner like real people gives me hope.
    1. It's not the conservative position to restrict birth control, only preventing GovCo from paying for it. On abortion, when does a healthy fetus obtain the right to live?
    2. Read Amendment 9 and 10 if you want to know my position on States rights.
    3. And my son had a history teacher that tried to say that the Democrat and Republican Parties magically "switched" positions on civil rights. We had a good laugh on that, too when I showed him the real history and asked him to use the "stink test" whenever a teacher said anything.
    4. My position is that marriage should be up to the church, and government shouldn't be in the business of social engineering through tax or ownership. Conservatives believe that every child deserves a mother and a father.
    5. These aren't the old days. Google muslim refuses gay wedding cakes, or similar. Then think about why you never heard of that reported by the sources that you rely on for news.
    6. I gave you my position.
    7. Again, the local body should decide.
    8. You brought up a Republican in a scandal, but ignored the dozens of Democrats in worse scandals. Or perhaps you haven't heard about those either?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatOwlWoman View Post
    I'm sure it does, to someone steeped and soaked in the majority... and who are now chagrined that we non-majority folks want to get a word in too.
    Have a nice evening, Post.
    seriously.....you used the left forcing gay marriage on society as an example of Christianity forcing its beliefs on others..........wear the flag you're waving........

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    The United States was founded by slave-owners wanting to dodge taxation for their defence against France, with whom they proceeded to collaborate against their own government.

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    Quote Originally Posted by iolo View Post
    The United States was founded by slave-owners wanting to dodge taxation for their defence against France, with whom they proceeded to collaborate against their own government.
    Still smarting over that, huh Limey?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Right View Post
    Midcan doesn't have original thoughts of his own. He like to read books though, and quote the parts that he believes in.
    what's wrong with that? supporting positions one believes in with quotes and articles? everybody here does it all the time.
    A sad commentary on we, as a people, and our viewpoint of our freedom can be summed up like this. We have liberals and conservatives, Democrats and Republicans, yet those very people look at Constitutionalists as radical and extreme.................so those liberals and conservatives, Democrats and Republicans must believe that the constitution is radical and extreme.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SmarterthanYou View Post
    what's wrong with that? supporting positions one believes in with quotes and articles? everybody here does it all the time.
    Lots of liberals don't have original thoughts of their own.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Right View Post
    Lots of liberals don't have original thoughts of their own.
    conversely, neither do alot of conservatives.
    A sad commentary on we, as a people, and our viewpoint of our freedom can be summed up like this. We have liberals and conservatives, Democrats and Republicans, yet those very people look at Constitutionalists as radical and extreme.................so those liberals and conservatives, Democrats and Republicans must believe that the constitution is radical and extreme.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SmarterthanYou View Post
    conversely, neither do alot of conservatives.
    I do. Midcan doesn't. Kenneth doesn't.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Threedee View Post
    Hypocritical leftists have guns.
    What’s hypocritical? People on the left don’t all share the same positions on guns.

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    ThatOwlWoman (11-22-2017)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Right View Post
    I do. Midcan doesn't. Kenneth doesn't.
    you have a few more than most, but you tend to follow conservative or establishment talking points most of the time.
    A sad commentary on we, as a people, and our viewpoint of our freedom can be summed up like this. We have liberals and conservatives, Democrats and Republicans, yet those very people look at Constitutionalists as radical and extreme.................so those liberals and conservatives, Democrats and Republicans must believe that the constitution is radical and extreme.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SmarterthanYou View Post
    you have a few more than most, but you tend to follow conservative or establishment talking points most of the time.
    So you say. But I've been saying the same things for decades now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PostmodernProphet View Post
    seriously.....you used the left forcing gay marriage on society as an example of Christianity forcing its beliefs on others..........wear the flag you're waving........
    So... can you tell us when you were forced to have a gay marriage, and where you're registered so we can send gifts?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatOwlWoman View Post
    So... can you tell us when you were forced to have a gay marriage, and where you're registered so we can send gifts?
    dance little owl lady, dance......you cannot deny that society did not believe that gay marriage was equal to real marriage.....even California voted against it........lib'ruls forced their beliefs on society......

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