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Thread: The Disappearing Right to Earn a Living

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    Default The Disappearing Right to Earn a Living

    Ostensibly these laws and regulations exist for safety but they are really just protections for people who already work in these industries.




    The Disappearing Right to Earn a Living

    Want to become a florist in Louisiana? A home-entertainment installer in Connecticut? Or a barber anywhere? You’re going to need a license for that—and it’s going to cost you.


    In most states, a person who desires to install home-entertainment systems for a living, or as a part-time gig for extra cash, faces relatively few barriers to entry. This is work teenagers routinely do for grandparents after they make a technology purchase. But in Connecticut, a home-entertainment installer is required to obtain a license from the state before serving customers. It costs applicants $185. To qualify, they must have a 12th-grade education, complete a test, and accumulate one year of apprenticeship experience in the field. A typical aspirant can expect the licensing process to delay them 575 days.

    These figures are drawn from License to Work, a report released this week by the Institute for Justice, a public-interest law firm that has sued state governments on behalf of numerous small-business owners and members of the working class who’ve faced unduly onerous obstacles while trying to earn a living.

    Occupational-licensing obstacles are much more common than they once were. “In the 1950s, about one in 20 American workers needed an occupational license before they could work in the occupation of their choice,” the report states. “Today, that figure stands at about one in four.” These requirements are at their most reasonable when regulating occupations such as anesthesiologist or airline pilot, as in those instances, they can mostly affect a privileged class.

    They are at their most pernicious when they are both needless and most burdensome to the middle class, the working class, and recent immigrants to a society. The IJ report focuses its attention on these cases, surveying 102 lower-income occupations across all 50 states and the District of Columbia. It concludes that “most of the 102 occupations are practiced in at least one state without state licensing and apparently without widespread harm.” In other words, dropping many of those requirements likely wouldn’t do any harm. Just 23 of the occupations surveyed are licensed in at least 40 states. Their online dataset helpfully allows anyone to search occupations per their interests. I learned that all 50 states license barbers while just 13 license bartenders.

    To be a florist in Louisiana, the only state to regulate them, one must take an exam and pay $189. Seven different jurisdictions require a license to be a tree trimmer. California demands that tree trimmers have four years experience, pay $529, and take two exams; Maryland requires two years of training and one year of experience.

    To underscore the irrationality of various requirements, IJ compares them to people charged with saving the lives of their fellow humans during emergencies:
    EMTs hold lives in their hands, yet 73 other occupations have greater average licensure burdens: barbers and cosmetologists, home entertainment installers, interior designers, log scalers, manicurists and numerous contractor designations … while the average cosmetologist must complete 386 days of training, the average EMT must complete a mere 34. Even the average tree trimmer must complete more than 16 times the amount of education and experience.

    Texas requires licenses for 37 occupations studied in the report. Said Texas Supreme Court Justice Don Willett, concurring in a 2015 case that struck down occupational licensing requirements for people engaged in eyebrow threading:

    As today’s case shows, the Texas occupational licensure regime, predominantly impeding Texans of modest means, can seem a hodge-podge of disjointed, logic-defying irrationalities, where the burdens imposed seem almost farcical, forcing many lower-income Texans to face a choice: submit to illogical bureaucracy or operate an illegal business? Licensure absurdities become apparent when you compare the wildly disparate education/experience burdens visited on various professions. The disconnect between the strictness of some licensing rules and their alleged public-welfare rationale is patently bizarre.

    Too often, occupational-licensing laws are less about protecting workers or consumers as a class than they are about protecting the interests of incumbents. Want to compete with me? Good luck, now that I’ve lobbied for a law that requires you to shell out cash and work toward a certificate before you can begin.

    How to withdraw the undue status that incumbent interests are exploiting?Among several worthwhile reforms advanced in the report’s conclusion, I was taken by the call to make it easier for aspiring workers and entrepreneurs to bring legal challenges against licensing laws. “The U.S. Constitution protects the right to earn an honest living free from unreasonable government interference, yet courts have often been reluctant to enforce this right by striking down arbitrary or irrational licensing laws,” it notes. “Under the prevailing legal standard, licensing laws are presumed valid when challenged in court, and individuals must prove that they are unconstitutional. This gets it exactly backward. Governments should have to prove that licensing laws advance legitimate health and safety concerns to justify restrictions on the right to earn a living.”

    A central plank of the American dream is at stake.


    https://www.theatlantic.com/amp/article/546071/

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    Quote Originally Posted by cawacko View Post
    Ostensibly these laws and regulations exist for safety but they are really just protections for people who already work in these industries.




    The Disappearing Right to Earn a Living

    Want to become a florist in Louisiana? A home-entertainment installer in Connecticut? Or a barber anywhere? You’re going to need a license for that—and it’s going to cost you.


    In most states, a person who desires to install home-entertainment systems for a living, or as a part-time gig for extra cash, faces relatively few barriers to entry. This is work teenagers routinely do for grandparents after they make a technology purchase. But in Connecticut, a home-entertainment installer is required to obtain a license from the state before serving customers. It costs applicants $185. To qualify, they must have a 12th-grade education, complete a test, and accumulate one year of apprenticeship experience in the field. A typical aspirant can expect the licensing process to delay them 575 days.

    These figures are drawn from License to Work, a report released this week by the Institute for Justice, a public-interest law firm that has sued state governments on behalf of numerous small-business owners and members of the working class who’ve faced unduly onerous obstacles while trying to earn a living.

    Occupational-licensing obstacles are much more common than they once were. “In the 1950s, about one in 20 American workers needed an occupational license before they could work in the occupation of their choice,” the report states. “Today, that figure stands at about one in four.” These requirements are at their most reasonable when regulating occupations such as anesthesiologist or airline pilot, as in those instances, they can mostly affect a privileged class.

    They are at their most pernicious when they are both needless and most burdensome to the middle class, the working class, and recent immigrants to a society. The IJ report focuses its attention on these cases, surveying 102 lower-income occupations across all 50 states and the District of Columbia. It concludes that “most of the 102 occupations are practiced in at least one state without state licensing and apparently without widespread harm.” In other words, dropping many of those requirements likely wouldn’t do any harm. Just 23 of the occupations surveyed are licensed in at least 40 states. Their online dataset helpfully allows anyone to search occupations per their interests. I learned that all 50 states license barbers while just 13 license bartenders.

    To be a florist in Louisiana, the only state to regulate them, one must take an exam and pay $189. Seven different jurisdictions require a license to be a tree trimmer. California demands that tree trimmers have four years experience, pay $529, and take two exams; Maryland requires two years of training and one year of experience.

    To underscore the irrationality of various requirements, IJ compares them to people charged with saving the lives of their fellow humans during emergencies:
    EMTs hold lives in their hands, yet 73 other occupations have greater average licensure burdens: barbers and cosmetologists, home entertainment installers, interior designers, log scalers, manicurists and numerous contractor designations … while the average cosmetologist must complete 386 days of training, the average EMT must complete a mere 34. Even the average tree trimmer must complete more than 16 times the amount of education and experience.

    Texas requires licenses for 37 occupations studied in the report. Said Texas Supreme Court Justice Don Willett, concurring in a 2015 case that struck down occupational licensing requirements for people engaged in eyebrow threading:

    As today’s case shows, the Texas occupational licensure regime, predominantly impeding Texans of modest means, can seem a hodge-podge of disjointed, logic-defying irrationalities, where the burdens imposed seem almost farcical, forcing many lower-income Texans to face a choice: submit to illogical bureaucracy or operate an illegal business? Licensure absurdities become apparent when you compare the wildly disparate education/experience burdens visited on various professions. The disconnect between the strictness of some licensing rules and their alleged public-welfare rationale is patently bizarre.

    Too often, occupational-licensing laws are less about protecting workers or consumers as a class than they are about protecting the interests of incumbents. Want to compete with me? Good luck, now that I’ve lobbied for a law that requires you to shell out cash and work toward a certificate before you can begin.

    How to withdraw the undue status that incumbent interests are exploiting?Among several worthwhile reforms advanced in the report’s conclusion, I was taken by the call to make it easier for aspiring workers and entrepreneurs to bring legal challenges against licensing laws. “The U.S. Constitution protects the right to earn an honest living free from unreasonable government interference, yet courts have often been reluctant to enforce this right by striking down arbitrary or irrational licensing laws,” it notes. “Under the prevailing legal standard, licensing laws are presumed valid when challenged in court, and individuals must prove that they are unconstitutional. This gets it exactly backward. Governments should have to prove that licensing laws advance legitimate health and safety concerns to justify restrictions on the right to earn a living.”

    A central plank of the American dream is at stake.


    https://www.theatlantic.com/amp/article/546071/
    I agree there is a lot of nonsense out there. But the article is incorrect in how long it takes for an EMT to train up, not to mention the exam they must take.

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    cawacky supports deregulation just like the racist right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TTQ64 View Post
    cawacky supports deregulation just like the racist right.
    So would you agree with the regulations mentioned in the article?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Superfreak View Post
    So would you agree with the regulations mentioned in the article?
    I guess regulations that hurt the working class and minorities aren't racist but wanting to remove them is. Makes total sense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Superfreak View Post
    I agree there is a lot of nonsense out there. But the article is incorrect in how long it takes for an EMT to train up, not to mention the exam they must take.
    Business licenses in Louisiana cost anywhere from $10 to $100 you're embarrassing yourself yet again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by katzgar View Post
    Business licenses in Louisiana cost anywhere from $10 to $100 you're embarrassing yourself yet again.
    What are you talking about? Where did I mention LA business licenses?

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    Just look at your state's business and professions code. It lists all the trades and professions for which licensure is required. Then having read the list and the requirements
    and bringing to bear all your knowledge of businesses not regulated, you can determine whether or not the safety and fraud provention ends are being met or
    whether the requirements are too onerous, for yourself.

    Obviously the chosen trade seems trivial and the source is one congenitally opposed to regulation, so the latter explains the former.
    Of course cawacko is free to move to a country where you can hang out a shingle and be an ocular surgeon with no training if he wants to.

    I think a lot of home improvement related trades should require regulation. If a guy walks in the door to your house and is going to
    dig into the walls probably best that guy has watched a few installs get done and have a $5000 bond. Or you can just ask any Russian immigrant,
    they can do anything.

    The other aspect where the OP has a point is the de facto guild that is created. I know I became a lawyer the old fashioned way, by getting top marks
    getting into a fully accredited Law School attending full time for three years of socratic and testing (and getting by at best), and passing a rigorous bar exam.
    It rankles me that now people can basically log on and attend what amounts to Trump University school of Saskatchiwan or Mexico and with god knows
    what oversight and quality assurance can sit for the bar and practice along side me. On the other hand, it is my guild mentality of wanting to keep it
    inside that is a real barrier to what are perhaps some decent attorneys. This theme is replayed in everyt industry I'm sure.

    "If I did the ordeal, you damn sure have to also"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Micawber View Post
    Just look at your state's business and professions code. It lists all the trades and professions for which licensure is required. Then having read the list and the requirements
    and bringing to bear all your knowledge of businesses not regulated, you can determine whether or not the safety and fraud provention ends are being met or
    whether the requirements are too onerous, for yourself.

    Obviously the chosen trade seems trivial and the source is one congenitally opposed to regulation, so the latter explains the former.
    Of course cawacko is free to move to a country where you can hang out a shingle and be an ocular surgeon with no training if he wants to.

    I think a lot of home improvement related trades should require regulation. If a guy walks in the door to your house and is going to
    dig into the walls probably best that guy has watched a few installs get done and have a $5000 bond. Or you can just ask any Russian immigrant,
    they can do anything.

    The other aspect where the OP has a point is the de facto guild that is created. I know I became a lawyer the old fashioned way, by getting top marks
    getting into a fully accredited Law School attending full time for three years of socratic and testing (and getting by at best), and passing a rigorous bar exam.
    It rankles me that now people can basically log on and attend what amounts to Trump University school of Saskatchiwan or Mexico and with god knows
    what oversight and quality assurance can sit for the bar and practice along side me. On the other hand, it is my guild mentality of wanting to keep it
    inside that is a real barrier to what are perhaps some decent attorneys. This theme is replayed in everyt industry I'm sure.

    "If I did the ordeal, you damn sure have to also"
    Yes, because Cawacko's OP was suggesting ocular surgeons to be allowed to operate without training. How dishonest are you counselor?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Micawber View Post
    Just look at your state's business and professions code. It lists all the trades and professions for which licensure is required. Then having read the list and the requirements
    and bringing to bear all your knowledge of businesses not regulated, you can determine whether or not the safety and fraud provention ends are being met or
    whether the requirements are too onerous, for yourself.

    Obviously the chosen trade seems trivial and the source is one congenitally opposed to regulation, so the latter explains the former.
    Of course cawacko is free to move to a country where you can hang out a shingle and be an ocular surgeon with no training if he wants to.

    I think a lot of home improvement related trades should require regulation. If a guy walks in the door to your house and is going to
    dig into the walls probably best that guy has watched a few installs get done and have a $5000 bond. Or you can just ask any Russian immigrant,
    they can do anything.

    The other aspect where the OP has a point is the de facto guild that is created. I know I became a lawyer the old fashioned way, by getting top marks
    getting into a fully accredited Law School attending full time for three years of socratic and testing (and getting by at best), and passing a rigorous bar exam.
    It rankles me that now people can basically log on and attend what amounts to Trump University school of Saskatchiwan or Mexico and with god knows
    what oversight and quality assurance can sit for the bar and practice along side me. On the other hand, it is my guild mentality of wanting to keep it
    inside that is a real barrier to what are perhaps some decent attorneys. This theme is replayed in everyt industry I'm sure.

    "If I did the ordeal, you damn sure have to also"
    Quite clearly the author wasn't speaking about opular surgery. The issue is low level entry points. Does your need for all things licensed trump people's ability to create something?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Superfreak View Post
    What are you talking about? Where did I mention LA business licenses?

    you are confused? no surprise

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    Quote Originally Posted by katzgar View Post
    you are confused? no surprise
    Yeah, because what you said made no sense. Do you have a comment on the article?

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    Quote Originally Posted by cawacko View Post
    Quite clearly the author wasn't speaking about opular surgery. The issue is low level entry points. Does your need for all things licensed trump people's ability to create something?
    Starting a business is hardly low level entry....it implies you know wtf you're doing and can do what you claim correctly....all this is to protect the customer, whether you're getting a haircut or allowing a stranger to enter your home to clean the floor.....
    Put blame where it belongs
    ATF decided it could not regulate bump stocks during the Obama administration.
    It that time," the NRA wrote in a statement. "The NRA believes that devices designed to allow semiautomatic rifles to function like fully-automatic rifles should be subject to additional regulations."
    The ATF and Obama admin. ignored the NRA recommendations.


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    Quote Originally Posted by katzgar View Post
    you are confused? no surprise
    Of course it isn't a surprise. Your comment had nothing to do with mine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NOVA View Post
    Starting a business is hardly low level entry....it implies you know wtf you're doing and can do what you claim correctly....all this is to protect the customer, whether you're getting a haircut or allowing a stranger to enter your home to clean the floor.....
    You're putting a lot of faith in the govt to protect you then because many of these requirements are a racket.

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