Do soldiers fight for a flag, or what it represents?

[Cancel 2020.1]

That picture could support either view, imo. When I see it, I go right to what that flag represents.

Otherwise, it's just a piece of cloth.

[dukkha]

What do Russians fight for, for example? Keeping in mind that Putin controls most aspects of their lives, and pillages the Russian economy. Clear it up for me. What does a Russian solider die for?

ask a Russian soldier -how would I know?
my guess:Why do you think Russian soldiers died in the millions during WWII? ( Mother Russia)

https://english.stackexchange.com/qu...-mother-russia

Motherland refers to a mother country, i.e. the place of one's birth, the place of one's ancestors, the place of origin of an ethnic group or immigrant, or a Metropole in contrast to its colonies. People often refer to Mother Russia as a personification of the Russian nation.

[dukkha]

That picture could support either view, imo. When I see it, I go right to what that flag represents.

Otherwise, it's just a piece of cloth.

I doubt those on Iwo Jima would agree, but you certainly have the right to that perspective

[Stretch]

Being able to actually burn the flag is the ultimate counter to that - our allowance of it, as offensive as it might be, is a profound expression of liberty.

Amazing how twisted we've become...DESTROYING something which represents a good thing. God help us.

[Cancel 2020.1]

I doubt those on Iwo Jima would agree, but you certainly have the right to that perspective

Are you kidding me?

You think they'd say they were putting the lives on the line for cloth, and not what that cloth represents?

[Cancel 2020.1]

Amazing how twisted we've become...DESTROYING something which represents a good thing. God help us.

It's uniquely American.

Look at Scalia's opinion on it. Completely paraphrasing, but he said that if he was king, of course he'd ban it - but this isn't a monarchy.

[Amadeus]

I think that the flag is a largely meaningless and arbitrary focus for patriotism. It is the values that allow you to live freely that should be saluted and fought for. When those values fail or are shown to be less than perfect, the flag can't fill that void.

A bull fights for the waving of a piece of cloth, any patriotism based on a flag is just as stupid and hollow.

[Cancel 2020.1]

This thread has already been pretty illuminating.

There are really profound differences of opinion regarding what it means to be an American.

[Amadeus]

This thread has already been pretty illuminating.

There are really profound differences of opinion regarding what it means to be an American.

Those who need the flag as a focus for patriotism are often the least patriotic and have the least American values. Just look at Trump supporters. 100% flag focus, but have almost zero respect for human rights, are often sympathetic to Putin, and are all-around empty barrels. Or all cowboy hat, no cattle, to coin a phrase.

[Sailor]

Those who need the flag as a focus for patriotism are often the least patriotic and have the least American values. Just look at Trump supporters. 100% flag focus, but have almost zero respect for human rights, are often sympathetic to Putin, and are all-around empty barrels. Or all cowboy hat, no cattle, to coin a phrase.

Says the guy who ran to Canada. One can just make this shit up, seriously.

[dukkha]

Are you kidding me?

You think they'd say they were putting the lives on the line for cloth, and not what that cloth represents?

not "cloth" that is a debasement of the flag "and for which it stands"

[Cancel 2020.1]

not "cloth" that is a debasement of the flag "and for which it stands"

Exactly. What it REPRESENTS.

You're getting it now.

[dukkha]

This thread has already been pretty illuminating.
There are really profound differences of opinion regarding what it means to be an American.

I don't think it's as divided as it seems on the surface. I think most of us are patriotic and value being an American.
So the concept (hopefully)remains the same no matter how you look at symbols like the flag

[dukkha]

Exactly. What it REPRESENTS.
You're getting it now.

well the flag is a symbol,and symbols have great powers.
What i'm trying to to say-since i think your thread motivation is a sincere debate-is debasing the flag is more then debasing a "cloth"

one is then debasing the symbol of being an American. Obviously it's a piece of cloth ( made in China. lol)
but the symbolism of the USA transcends that little cloth

[Cancel 2020.1]

well the flag is a symbol,and symbols have great powers.
What i'm trying to to say-since i think your thread motivation is a sincere debate-is debasing the flag is more then debasing a "cloth"

one is then debasing the symbol of being an American. Obviously it's a piece of cloth ( made in China. lol)
but the symbolism of the USA transcends that little cloth

But what is it a symbol of? What does it represent?

Obviously, the flag represents all kinds of different things to different people. But I'd be surprised if we couldn't find a consensus that the top of the list would be LIBERTY.