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Thread: North Tower Exploding

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    Norman Mineta was in the White House bunker with Cheney on the morning of 9/11. Did Mineta say that he heard Cheney order a stand down of air defenses? Many 9/11 truthers believe that he did:

    "When faced with former Secretary of Transportation Norman Mineta’s testimony — about Cheney’s stand-down order as the plane approached the Pentagon — defenders of the official story have tried to discredit Mineta by saying that he got his times mixed up."
    http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2007/...confirmed.html

    Mineta never mentioned a stand-down order. What did he say? Here is his testimony to the 9/11 Commission:

    "There was a young man who had come in and said to the vice president, 'The plane is 50 miles out. The plane is 30 miles out.' And when it got down to, 'The plane is 10 miles out,' the young man also said to the vice president, 'Do the orders still stand?' And the vice president turned and whipped his neck around and said, 'Of course the orders still stand. Have you heard anything to the contrary?' Well, at the time I didn't know what all that meant."
    https://www.9-11commission.gov/archi...2003-05-23.htm

    How do we get from that to "Cheney's stand-down order"? Like this:

    "Had Cheney given the expected order – the order to have an aircraft approaching the Pentagon shot down – we could not explain why the young man asked if the order still stood. It would have been abundantly obvious to him that it would continue to stand until the aircraft was actually shot down. His question would make sense, however, if the orders were ones that seemed unusual."
    https://conspireality.tv/2008/09/12/...an-inside-job/

    So, the argument goes, orders to the USAF to shoot down a civilian airliner would have seemed quite usual and would certainly not have been queried by the aide before being passed on. Therefore, "the orders" must have been stand-down orders.

    Convinced?

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    10 reasons why the Twin Towers could not have collapsed

    1. They were designed to withstand jetliners, explosives, implosives, mamathermite, nukes, big ray guns, and the End Times. Underwriters Laboratories certified this.

    2. If they had collapsed at free fall they would have fallen through to China in 45 minutes. Instead it took several months for the steel to get there.

    3. The Empire State Building didn't collapse when an airplane hit it, and that was built when New York was still in the Empire.

    4. If two buildings that size had collapsed, the shockwaves would have started a tsunami that would have wiped out New Jersey. Somebody would have noticed.

    5. Richard Gage's cardboard boxes didn't collapse when he dropped them, so why would towers made of steel and concrete collapse?

    6. No other 110 story skyscraper hit by a jetliner at 500 mph and set on fire has ever collapsed.

    7. Each story was 12 ft high, and it takes 0.87 secs for an object to fall 12 ft. Do the math: 110 x 0.87 = 95.7. It would have taken over a minute and a half for those towers to collapse!

    8. The pyroclastic clouds would have suffocated everybody in Manhattan. See #4.

    9. The New World Order loves tall buildings, that's why they hang out at the UN. They would never have allowed it.

    10. How could two 1300 ft buildings collapse without damaging the surroundings? At least one other building would have collapsed later, say around 5 pm.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Controlled Opposition View Post
    You do know that those buildings were designed to withstand hits by aircraft. Start from there in explaining your bizarre theory of 9-11.
    No they weren't.. The Empire State building was conventional brick and mortar hit by a small aircraft that was lost and flying at low speeds.

    NOTHING like the cantilevered, aluminum skinned WTC.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kudzu View Post
    No they weren't.. The Empire State building was conventional brick and mortar hit by a small aircraft that was lost and flying at low speeds.

    NOTHING like the cantilevered, aluminum skinned WTC.
    The intense heat removed much of the tensile strength from the steel girders. The fireproofing had been damaged by the collision of the aircraft.
    In rejecting their view [Spinoza, Leibnitz and Hegel], as I shall contend that we must, we are committing ourselves to the opinion that “truth” in empirical material has a meaning different from that which it bears in logic and mathematics.”

    Bertrand Russell, “An Inquiry Into Meaning & Truth” (1940)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Havana Moon View Post
    The intense heat removed much of the tensile strength from the steel girders.

    The heat caused the steel floor joists to sag, which pulled the perimeter columns inwards. Some of the columns, already damaged by airplane impact, buckled and the collapse started. You can see it happening here:






    Btw, do you have anything approaching a sense of humor? Just wondering.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Havana Moon View Post
    The intense heat removed much of the tensile strength from the steel girders. The fireproofing had been damaged by the collision of the aircraft.
    After that first bombing incident at the Towers.. I don't remember the year.. They promoted a narrative about it being built to withstand airliners.. It wasn't true..but, the Twin Towers was overbuilt to begin with and they had a hell of a time renting it up. In the early years it was a bit of a white elephant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tranquillus in Exile View Post
    10 reasons why the Twin Towers could not have collapsed

    1. They were designed to withstand jetliners, explosives, implosives, mamathermite, nukes, big ray guns, and the End Times. Underwriters Laboratories certified this.

    2. If they had collapsed at free fall they would have fallen through to China in 45 minutes. Instead it took several months for the steel to get there.

    3. The Empire State Building didn't collapse when an airplane hit it, and that was built when New York was still in the Empire.

    4. If two buildings that size had collapsed, the shockwaves would have started a tsunami that would have wiped out New Jersey. Somebody would have noticed.

    5. Richard Gage's cardboard boxes didn't collapse when he dropped them, so why would towers made of steel and concrete collapse?

    6. No other 110 story skyscraper hit by a jetliner at 500 mph and set on fire has ever collapsed.

    7. Each story was 12 ft high, and it takes 0.87 secs for an object to fall 12 ft. Do the math: 110 x 0.87 = 95.7. It would have taken over a minute and a half for those towers to collapse!

    8. The pyroclastic clouds would have suffocated everybody in Manhattan. See #4.

    9. The New World Order loves tall buildings, that's why they hang out at the UN. They would never have allowed it.

    10. How could two 1300 ft buildings collapse without damaging the surroundings? At least one other building would have collapsed later, say around 5 pm.

    Pascal argues that a rational person should live as though God exists and seek to believe in God. If God does not actually exist, such a person will have only a finite loss, whereas they stand to receive infinite gains and avoid infinite losses.

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    Some of those '10 reasons' are a bit recherché and might only be picked up by truthers, or someone who has argued with them for years as I have.

    Truthers say the collapse was triggered by pre-planted explosives and/or thermite. Then once it started, they ask why didn't it stop - there must have been more explosives all the way down. See the OP.

    I've shown them the video of the perimeter columns buckling inwards, and they still say it was explosives. It's like arguing with Trumpsters.

    P.S. Nice pic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tranquillus in Exile View Post
    The heat caused the steel floor joists to sag, which pulled the perimeter columns inwards. Some of the columns, already damaged by airplane impact, buckled and the collapse started. You can see it happening here:


    Btw, do you have anything approaching a sense of humor? Just wondering.
    Are you avin a larf?

    In rejecting their view [Spinoza, Leibnitz and Hegel], as I shall contend that we must, we are committing ourselves to the opinion that “truth” in empirical material has a meaning different from that which it bears in logic and mathematics.”

    Bertrand Russell, “An Inquiry Into Meaning & Truth” (1940)

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    building 7 was not hit by a plane. it did not have jet fuel burning through it. It collapsed like the others.

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    Um, fire will do that....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nordberg View Post
    building 7 was not hit by a plane. it did not have jet fuel burning through it. It collapsed like the others.
    That is correct - it was collapsed upon by the North Tower and set on fire. Also its design was most unusual, being cantilevered over a Con Ed power station. Structural engineers posting on other boards have said it was unique in their experience.

    One small quibble: it did not collapse like the others, it collapsed from the bottom. Several hundred first responders were around at the time, and none reported hearing any explosions.

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