What does "conservative" and "liberal" really mean nowadays?

[Little-Acorn]

Not what you might think.

A hundred-plus years ago when the government actually WAS small and limited and sovereign citizens held great personal responsibility and freedom, the small-government advocates were labelled "conservative", because they seemed to be fighting to defeat changes from this agenda. But in fact, they weren't fighting to stop change - they were pushing for small government and personal responsibility, just as they are today.

Ironically, so-called "liberals" got their label not too long after that, when they started pushing for relaxation of a few of the strict standards government was held to by the Constitution. It didn't take long before they were pushing for much greater change. They pretended they were fighting for the "liberty" to choose one's own course, when in fact their agenda is what led to disobedience of the Constitution and increasing socialism, in which true liberty (freedom from unsolicited coercion) is greatly restricted.

Now, the terms "liberal" and "conservative" have each been turned around 180 degrees. Conservatives, pushing for small govt as they always have, are the ones trying to change what govt is today, while "liberals" are in fact fighting to reduce liberty and impose their socialistic ideas, which carry the baggage of HEAVY government coercion. In a word, conservatives are trying to change things while today's liberals are fighting against liberty.

Both titles were mild misnomers when they were first assigned. Now they are much farther off the mark.

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(Transplanted from another thread, the subject definitely deserves its own thread)

[uscitizen]

conservative means I will vote for the republican candidate and liberal means I will vote for the democrat or green candidate.

that is it in a nutshell little nut.

[FUCK THE POLICE]

"Conservative" has always meant wanting to keep things the same, or wanting to bring them back to the way they were before. Liberalism in America generally just means the opposite of conservative. But internationally it's more like a stated philosophy. It doesn't change simply because conservatism changes. It means, basically, liberty, and that's it's root word, just like socailism is about society. But the meaning has all but been lost in America.

But you do have parties in other countries that are "conservative liberal", and if you knew the history of the terms, that makes sense.

[Little-Acorn]

So neither of you read the initial post, eh?

The push for small, limited govt was called "conservatism" a hundred years or more ago, since it came in the midst of a time of small, limited government. Now that we're in an era of big-and-getting-bigger government, the push for small government has kept its name, despite that name becoming even less appropriate than it originally was.

Count on the leftists (in both parties) to try to pretend it's merely a desire to keep things the same, despite overwhelming evidence that today the opposite is true. It's much easier for them, than trying to justify their own push for the large, intrusive government they advocate.

[uscitizen]

hey Littlenut I read and replied on the little govt issue.

so why have you supported larger govt since 2000 ?

[Minister of Truth]

I think it the words would make more sense if we dumped the word neoconservatism and just went back to calling it populism like we used to.

[FUCK THE POLICE]

So neither of you read the initial post, eh?

The push for small, limited govt was called "conservatism" a hundred years or more ago, since it came in the midst of a time of small, limited government. Now that we're in an era of big-and-getting-bigger government, the push for small government has kept its name, despite that name becoming even less appropriate than it originally was.

Count on the leftists (in both parties) to try to pretend it's merely a desire to keep things the same, despite overwhelming evidence that today the opposite is true. It's much easier for them, than trying to justify their own push for the large, intrusive government they advocate.

So I guess you didn't read my initial post, eh?

You are as dense as a brick. Or a neutron star.

[Obfuscate]

dumb and dumber

[uscitizen]

dumb and dumber

That pretty much sums it up.

[Little-Acorn]

So, nothing in reply from the board leftists except false statements, namecalling, and assertion of points that have already been refuted?

That appears to be the norm on this board, though I may be too new here to generalize that completely.

The good news: No profanity from the leftists so far. In that, this thread is unique.

[Beefy]

So, nothing in reply from the board leftists except false statements, namecalling, and assertion of points that have already been refuted?

That appears to be the norm on this board, though I may be too new here to generalize that completely.

The good news: No profanity from the leftists so far. In that, this thread is unique.

Penis.

Unfortunately, the parties have hijacked the words "liberal" and "conservative".

Conservative to me so does not mean republican and same with liberal/democrat.

Conservatism is best personified by Pat Buchanan.

Liberalism is best personified by Stalin/Mao/Pot.

[FUCK THE POLICE]

Penis.

Unfortunately, the parties have hijacked the words "liberal" and "conservative".

Conservative to me so does not mean republican and same with liberal/democrat.

Conservatism is best personified by Pat Buchanan.

Liberalism is best personified by Stalin/Mao/Pot.

Liberalism is best personified by JFK/Thomas Jefferson.

Conservatism is best personified by Hitler.

[FUCK THE POLICE]

So, nothing in reply from the board leftists except false statements, namecalling, and assertion of points that have already been refuted?

That appears to be the norm on this board, though I may be too new here to generalize that completely.

The good news: No profanity from the leftists so far. In that, this thread is unique.

U R a cunt.

[Little-Acorn]

Unfortunately, the parties have hijacked the words "liberal" and "conservative".

More or less. As I pointed out, the names were mild misnomers when they were first applied, and have become more so as the parties claiming them have changed.

Conservative to me so does not mean republican

Very true. Many Republicans are an odd mix of conservatism and modern liberalism. To me, that's like being partly pregnant.

and same with liberal/democrat.

Modern liberalism (there's that misnomer again) is much closer to socialism, with all its coercion, government intrusion, forced income redistribution etc., than to anything supporting liberty (the original meaning of the word). I cannot think of a single present-day high-level Democrat who doesn't practice those things to the hilt.

[Beefy]

Modern liberalism (there's that misnomer again) is much closer to socialism, with all its coercion, government intrusion, forced income redistribution etc., than to anything supporting liberty (the original meaning of the word). I cannot think of a single present-day high-level Democrat who doesn't practice those things to the hilt.

Can you think of a high level Republican who doesn't practice that jive talkin'?