Page 1 of 15 1234511 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 223

Thread: Are Confederate soldiers considered US vets?

  1. #1 | Top
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Posts
    43,479
    Thanks
    12,574
    Thanked 23,756 Times in 16,563 Posts
    Groans
    249
    Groaned 1,622 Times in 1,532 Posts

    Default Are Confederate soldiers considered US vets?

    The Truth:

    It’s true that Union and Confederate soldiers are considered U.S. veterans under federal law, and that they would be entitled to the same benefits as Union soldiers today.

    These claims went viral on social media after the Confederate flag was removed from the South Carolina Capitol grounds in July 2015. The state legislature voted to remove the flag after a self-described white supremacist murdered nine black churchgoers there.

    That inspired posts on social media sites that claimed Confederate and Union veterans were considered equals under federal law, and that they are entitled to the same protections and benefits.

    It’s true that a federal law passed in 1958 listed the spouses and children of all Civil War veterans — Confederate and Union — as eligible for federal pensions:

    Whenever there is no surviving spouse entitled to pension under section 1532 of this title, the Secretary shall pay to the children of each Civil War veteran who met the service requirements of section 1532 of this title a pension at the monthly rate of $73.13 for one child, plus $8.13 for each additional child, with the total amount equally divided.

    It’s also true that federal law (formerly Public Law 810) makes Confederate soldiers eligible for burial in national cemeteries and for taxpayer-funded headstones, just like Union soldiers:

    The Secretary shall furnish, when requested, an appropriate memorial headstone or marker for the purpose of commemorating an eligible individual whose remains are unavailable. Such a headstone or marker shall be furnished for placement in a national cemetery area reserved for that purpose under section 2403 of this title, a veterans’ cemetery owned by a State, or, in the case of a veteran, in a State, local, or private cemetery.

    The last known Civil War veteran died in 1956, and the last known widow of a Civil War veteran died in 2003 at age 93. But there were surprisingly two children of Civil War veterans who were still receiving benefits in 2012, U.S. News reports:

    In the 19th and early 20th centuries, only Union soldiers were eligible for military benefits. It wasn’t until the 1930s that confederate soldiers began receiving pensions from the federal government. Prior to that, confederate soldiers could apply for benefits through the state they resided in.

    The groundwork for reconciliation, however, was laid decades before Confederate soldiers and family members became available for federal benefits.
    https://www.truthorfiction.com/confe...r-federal-law/

  2. The Following User Says Thank You to dukkha For This Post:

    Irish (08-19-2017)

  3. #2 | Top
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Posts
    43,479
    Thanks
    12,574
    Thanked 23,756 Times in 16,563 Posts
    Groans
    249
    Groaned 1,622 Times in 1,532 Posts

    Default

    any of us, both historians and the public, consider the combatants on both sides of the Civil War to be Americans. For example, the oft-repeated statistics of 620,000 (or more) American deaths in the war include both Union and Confederate numbers. When historians tout the statistics that more Americans died in the Civil War than almost all the other American conflicts combined, both blue and gray are included in those numbers. Abraham Lincoln, who never recognized the legitimacy of the Confederate States of America believed throughout the war that Confederates were Americans in rebellion. Reconciliation and the formation of Civil War memory also brought men in both blue and grey together under one umbrella in many ways.

    After the war, most former Confederates quickly regained U.S. Citizenship. President Lincoln began the process in 1863 with the Proclamation of Amnesty and Reconstruction. It allowed for a full pardon to those fighting for the South with the exception of the highest Confederate political and military leaders. At the end of the war, in May 1865, President Johnson offered a similar proclamation requiring those seeking pardon to take the oath of loyalty to the United States and obey federal laws about slavery. In his proclamation Johnson listed fourteen classes of people ineligible for pardons; the number of restrictions was then reduced in an 1867 proclamation.

    Full amnesty for former Confederates came on December 25, 1868 in a final proclamation from Johnson:

    Now, therefore, be it known that I, Andrew Johnson President of the United States, by virtue of the power and authority in me vested by the Constitution and in the name of the sovereign people of the United States, do hereby proclaim and declare unconditionally and without reservation, to all and to every person who, directly or indirectly, participated in the late insurrection or rebellion a full pardon and amnesty for the offense of treason against the United States or of adhering to their enemies during the late civil war, with restoration of all rights, privileges, and immunities under the Constitution and the laws which have been made in pursuance thereof.

    This proclamation gave full amnesty and the restoration of all citizenship rights to Confederate veterans. As Reconstruction continued, former Confederates largely resumed life as American citizens, with the exception of losing their property in slaves.

    The main controversy on the internet about the status of Confederate veterans seems to center on two pieces of legislation passed by Congress in 1958. The first is part of Public Law 85-425, an act passed on May 23, 1958 dealing with pension rate increased for widows’ pensions for the “Spanish-American War, Civil War, Indian War, and Mexican War, and…widows of veterans who served in the military or naval forces of the Confederate States of America during the Civil War.” Section (e) of the law states “For the purpose of this section…the term ‘veteran’ includes a person who served in the military or naval forces of the Confederate States of America during the Civil War…”

    The legislation continues later to clarify: “The Administrator shall pay to each person who served in the military or naval forces of the Confederate States of America during the Civil War a monthly pension in the same amounts and subject to the same conditions as would have been applicable to such person under the laws in effect December 31, 1957, if his service in such forces had been service in the military or naval service of the United States.”

    The second piece of legislation—Public Law 85-811 passed August 28, 1958—deals with the procurement of Government headstones for veterans. It amends a previous act from 1948 and states “That the Secretary of the Army is authorized and directed to furnish, when requested, appropriate Government headstones or markers at the expense of the United States for the unmarked graves of the following…” The first category listed is “Soldiers of the Union and Confederate Armies of the Civil War.”
    http://www.civildiscourse-historyblo...tates-veterans

  4. #3 | Top
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    22,675
    Thanks
    595
    Thanked 12,388 Times in 7,999 Posts
    Groans
    16
    Groaned 809 Times in 761 Posts

    Default

    It's actually sort of hard to believe that this has become any kind of "valid" talking point in this debate.

    It shows how far we have veered off course under Trump. He is not a leader who has any credibility in the area of morality.

  5. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Cancel 2020.1 For This Post:

    blackascoal (08-16-2017), christiefan915 (08-16-2017), Phantasmal (08-16-2017), Rune (08-18-2017), ZappasGuitar (08-16-2017)

  6. #4 | Top
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Posts
    43,479
    Thanks
    12,574
    Thanked 23,756 Times in 16,563 Posts
    Groans
    249
    Groaned 1,622 Times in 1,532 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Thing1 View Post
    It's actually sort of hard to believe that this has become any kind of "valid" talking point in this debate.

    It shows how far we have veered off course under Trump. He is not a leader who has any credibility in the area of morality.
    WTF are you babbling about? It's a core issue of how the US gov't views Confederate soldiers.
    Nothing to do w/Trump

    ( the links above are edited. The first goes more into the C flag and the 2nd then goes into opinion.
    the sources say the same about the law)

  7. The Following User Groans At dukkha For This Awful Post:

    Rune (08-18-2017)

  8. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to dukkha For This Post:

    cancel2 2022 (08-16-2017), Irish (08-19-2017)

  9. #5 | Top
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    74,838
    Thanks
    15,266
    Thanked 14,432 Times in 12,044 Posts
    Groans
    18,546
    Groaned 1,699 Times in 1,647 Posts
    Blog Entries
    6

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Thing1 View Post
    It's actually sort of hard to believe that this has become any kind of "valid" talking point in this debate.

    It shows how far we have veered off course under Trump. He is not a leader who has any credibility in the area of morality.
    YEAH, let's not let FACTS get in the way of "righteous liberal anger"
    Last edited by USFREEDOM911; 08-16-2017 at 09:07 AM.
    SEDITION: incitement of resistance to or insurrection against lawful authority.


  10. The Following User Says Thank You to USFREEDOM911 For This Post:

    Irish (08-19-2017)

  11. #6 | Top
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Posts
    43,479
    Thanks
    12,574
    Thanked 23,756 Times in 16,563 Posts
    Groans
    249
    Groaned 1,622 Times in 1,532 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by USFREEDOM911 View Post
    YEAH, let's not let FACTS get in the way of "liberal righteous anger"
    thing is all about "feelings"

  12. #7 | Top
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    10,119
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 4 Times in 3 Posts
    Groans
    0
    Groaned 17 Times in 17 Posts

    Default

    It should be noted that Lee was slated to be hung for treason when US Grant saved his ass and gave him a reprieve.
    Under US law Lee was considered a treasonous criminal and a traitor to his country.
    USFREEDOM911 Expresses one of his homosexual prison rape fantasies;
    Quote Originally Posted by USFREEDOM911 View Post
    he may be getting several boners, they just won't be his.
    "You got shot in the balls and you're still walking!! Then this probably won't hurt you at all (as he unzips his pants)."




    Quote Originally Posted by USFREEDOM911 View Post
    I would kill someone who didn't pay me, after I give them a blowjob.
    Does that make me insane?

  13. #8 | Top
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    16,136
    Thanks
    10,959
    Thanked 19,485 Times in 9,083 Posts
    Groans
    1,448
    Groaned 1,427 Times in 1,256 Posts

    Default

    US terrorist and traitors!


  14. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to signalmankenneth For This Post:

    christiefan915 (08-16-2017), Phantasmal (08-16-2017), Rune (08-18-2017)

  15. #9 | Top
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    15,536
    Thanks
    1,378
    Thanked 3,981 Times in 3,024 Posts
    Groans
    130
    Groaned 841 Times in 781 Posts

    Default

    we should remove pensions from any troops in a war the left doesnt agree with : )
    is on twitter @realtsuke

    https://tsukesthoughts.wordpress.com/

  16. The Following User Groans At tsuke For This Awful Post:

    Rune (08-18-2017)

  17. #10 | Top
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    41,958
    Thanks
    3
    Thanked 22,036 Times in 13,846 Posts
    Groans
    0
    Groaned 3,042 Times in 2,838 Posts

    Default

    After all that, I'd say no, but regardless, the bigger question is why are people so worked up over removing these statues? The Confederacy was a separate nation, and that separate nation is responsible for the deaths of millions of Americans, so,why is it important to maintain statues of Confederate leaders?

    Everyone has to pick their battles, and for conservatives this is a damn silly one to get involved in

  18. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to archives For This Post:

    blackascoal (08-16-2017), Phantasmal (08-16-2017)

  19. #11 | Top
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    74,838
    Thanks
    15,266
    Thanked 14,432 Times in 12,044 Posts
    Groans
    18,546
    Groaned 1,699 Times in 1,647 Posts
    Blog Entries
    6

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Buckly J. Ewer View Post
    It should be noted that Lee was slated to be hung for treason when US Grant saved his ass and gave him a reprieve.
    Under US law Lee was considered a treasonous criminal and a traitor to his country.
    Considered and convicted are like apples and oranges.
    SEDITION: incitement of resistance to or insurrection against lawful authority.


  20. #12 | Top
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    10,119
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 4 Times in 3 Posts
    Groans
    0
    Groaned 17 Times in 17 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by USFREEDOM911 View Post
    Considered and convicted are like apples and oranges.
    Was Lee a white supremacist, or not? Would he have been hanged as a traitor were it not for Grant's intervention?
    Apples and oranges are both fruit.
    USFREEDOM911 Expresses one of his homosexual prison rape fantasies;
    Quote Originally Posted by USFREEDOM911 View Post
    he may be getting several boners, they just won't be his.
    "You got shot in the balls and you're still walking!! Then this probably won't hurt you at all (as he unzips his pants)."




    Quote Originally Posted by USFREEDOM911 View Post
    I would kill someone who didn't pay me, after I give them a blowjob.
    Does that make me insane?

  21. #13 | Top
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Posts
    20,584
    Thanks
    5,584
    Thanked 2,435 Times in 2,073 Posts
    Groans
    0
    Groaned 172 Times in 170 Posts

    Default

    lets not forget

    1. that the libs loathe the military, all military and want to dishonor them
    2. i doubt highly that the people claiming their ancestors were slaves can even name there own daddies

  22. #14 | Top
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Posts
    43,479
    Thanks
    12,574
    Thanked 23,756 Times in 16,563 Posts
    Groans
    249
    Groaned 1,622 Times in 1,532 Posts

    Default

    the usual spam..Not once I have heard by anyone that removal of Confederates is removing US vets.
    morons

  23. #15 | Top
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    74,838
    Thanks
    15,266
    Thanked 14,432 Times in 12,044 Posts
    Groans
    18,546
    Groaned 1,699 Times in 1,647 Posts
    Blog Entries
    6

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Buckly J. Ewer View Post
    Was Lee a white supremacist, or not? Would he have been hanged as a traitor were it not for Grant's intervention?
    Apples and oranges are both fruit.
    So are you; but I regress.

    What was Lee convicted of??
    SEDITION: incitement of resistance to or insurrection against lawful authority.


Similar Threads

  1. The Confederate origins of Memorial Day
    By tsuke in forum Current Events Forum
    Replies: 123
    Last Post: 06-02-2017, 11:00 AM
  2. Confederate States of Trump?
    By Legion Troll in forum Current Events Forum
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 03-25-2016, 09:02 PM
  3. Remake The Confederate Flag
    By Mott the Hoople in forum Off Topic Forum
    Replies: 192
    Last Post: 01-24-2016, 03:53 AM
  4. Were Confederate soldiers terrorists?
    By signalmankenneth in forum General Politics Forum
    Replies: 570
    Last Post: 04-02-2013, 06:37 AM
  5. Should the Confederate flag be banned?
    By Canceled.LTroll.28 in forum Current Events Forum
    Replies: 27
    Last Post: 04-15-2010, 05:04 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Rules

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •