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Thread: Are you sure you want single payer healthcare in the U.S.?

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    Default Are you sure you want single payer healthcare in the U.S.?

    Median wait time by province in 2016:
    • New Brunswick: 38.8 weeks
    • Nova Scotia: 34. 8
    • P.E.I: 31.4
    • Newfoundland and Labrador: 26
    • British Columbia: 25.2
    • Alberta: 22.9
    • Manitoba: 20.6
    • Quebec: 18.9
    • Saskatchewan: 16.6
    • Ontario: 15.6

    In terms of specialized treatment, national wait times were longest for neurosurgery (46.9 weeks) and shortest for medical oncology (3.7 weeks).
    • Neurosurgery: 46.9 weeks
    • Orthopaedic surgery: 38
    • Ophthalmology: 28.5
    • Plastic Surgery: 25.9


    First, there is a well-propagated, pernicious myth that Canadians are pioneers in health care, and that access to care is a basic human right. The universality of the system has become a key part of Canada’s national identity, thanks in no small part to propagandists who ignore the widespread suffering wrought by the CHA in order to paint the country as some sort of socialist utopia.

    Second, the system’s costs are hidden. Many Canadians — and many progressives abroad — like to think that health care is “free” in Canada, when in fact, Canadian taxpayers pay, on average, $10,500 per year for all their health-care needs. Canadians simply have no concept of how much the services they consume cost, since the CHA prohibits providers from ever showing patients a bill.

    Finally, there is the fact that Canada’s single-payer system is made possible only by an accident of geography: It is propped up by the U.S. health-care industry next door, which provides a parallel private system for very sick and very rich Canadians while acting as the driving force for global medical innovation.

    Ultimately, the antidote for Canada’s poor health outcomes and long wait times has been for Canadians to seek care elsewhere. Don’t take my word for it. A few years ago, Dr. Martin Samuels, the founder of the neurology department at Harvard’s Brigham and Women’s Hospital, wrote in Forbes about his experiences as a visiting professor in Canada:

    "The reason the Canadian health-care system works as well as it does (and that is not by any means optimal) is because 90 percent of the population is within driving distance of the United States where the privately insured can be Seattled, Minneapolised, Mayoed, Detroited, Chicagoed, Clevelanded, and Buffaloed, thus relieving the pressure by the rich and influential to change a system that works well enough for the other people but not for them, especially when they are worried or in pain. In the United States, there is no analogous safety valve, so the influential simply demand a different level of care and receive it."


    In other words, Canada’s rigid state monopoly on health insurance works only because Canadians secretly have a private alternative: America’s market-based system. It isn’t just “rich and influential” Canadians who seek treatment in the U.S., either. In a recent government document obtained by the Toronto Star, five stem-cell-transplant directors laid out the “crisis” in Ontario, revealing that “the health ministry approved more than $100 million in spending recently to redirect hundreds of patients who will probably die waiting for transplants in Ontario to hospitals in Cleveland, Buffalo, and Detroit.” Likewise, a recent report from the Fraser Institute, Canada’s leading public-policy think tank, estimated that more than 52,000 Canadians received medical treatment outside of Canada in 2014.

    Canadians might like their single-payer health-care system in theory, but in practice, large numbers of them are going elsewhere for care.

    National Review April 13, 2017
    Abortion rights dogma can obscure human reason & harden the human heart so much that the same person who feels
    empathy for animal suffering can lack compassion for unborn children who experience lethal violence and excruciating
    pain in abortion.

    Unborn animals are protected in their nesting places, humans are not. To abort something is to end something
    which has begun. To abort life is to end it.



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    Wait times, what is they are waiting for??
    "There is no question former President Trump bears moral responsibility. His supporters stormed the Capitol because of the unhinged falsehoods he shouted into the world’s largest megaphone," McConnell wrote. "His behavior during and after the chaos was also unconscionable, from attacking Vice President Mike Pence during the riot to praising the criminals after it ended."



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    I don't want to live in Canada. I want to live in the free market system of the U.S.
    They extremely poor will have their Medicaid and State Public Health Departments located in every county of the country.
    Abortion rights dogma can obscure human reason & harden the human heart so much that the same person who feels
    empathy for animal suffering can lack compassion for unborn children who experience lethal violence and excruciating
    pain in abortion.

    Unborn animals are protected in their nesting places, humans are not. To abort something is to end something
    which has begun. To abort life is to end it.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill View Post
    Wait times, what is they are waiting for??
    Did you read the entire post and notice the topic on the subject line?
    Abortion rights dogma can obscure human reason & harden the human heart so much that the same person who feels
    empathy for animal suffering can lack compassion for unborn children who experience lethal violence and excruciating
    pain in abortion.

    Unborn animals are protected in their nesting places, humans are not. To abort something is to end something
    which has begun. To abort life is to end it.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Stretch View Post
    I don't want to live in Canada. I want to live in the free market system of the U.S.
    They extremely poor will have their Medicaid and State Public Health Departments located in every county of the country.
    Let's be clear, we don't have free market health care in the U.S. We have a better system than most other countries but what we have is not free market

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stretch View Post
    I don't want to live in Canada. I want to live in the free market system of the U.S.
    They extremely poor will have their Medicaid and State Public Health Departments located in every county of the country.
    Ppl that can afford like our system, those that don't are going to be dying a lot sooner, just sayin, thnx trumpkins..
    "There is no question former President Trump bears moral responsibility. His supporters stormed the Capitol because of the unhinged falsehoods he shouted into the world’s largest megaphone," McConnell wrote. "His behavior during and after the chaos was also unconscionable, from attacking Vice President Mike Pence during the riot to praising the criminals after it ended."



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    Quote Originally Posted by Stretch View Post
    Did you read the entire post and notice the topic on the subject line?
    You mean this?? Median wait time by province in 2016:
    "There is no question former President Trump bears moral responsibility. His supporters stormed the Capitol because of the unhinged falsehoods he shouted into the world’s largest megaphone," McConnell wrote. "His behavior during and after the chaos was also unconscionable, from attacking Vice President Mike Pence during the riot to praising the criminals after it ended."



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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill View Post
    Ppl that can afford like our system, those that don't are going to be dying a lot sooner, just sayin, thnx trumpkins..
    Providers stopped providing Obamacare, leaving tens of millions of poor children to die in the streets.

    Thanks, Obama.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill View Post
    Ppl that can afford like our system, those that don't are going to be dying a lot sooner, just sayin, thnx trumpkins..
    Did you read the article? People there would be dead from the wait times if not for the h.c. they can come across the border and receive here.
    Abortion rights dogma can obscure human reason & harden the human heart so much that the same person who feels
    empathy for animal suffering can lack compassion for unborn children who experience lethal violence and excruciating
    pain in abortion.

    Unborn animals are protected in their nesting places, humans are not. To abort something is to end something
    which has begun. To abort life is to end it.



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    Why has this occurred, if such factors as smoking rates have dropped faster in the USA during the 30 year period of study than in the other countries?

    USA does have higher obesity rates than in the other countries. But this was also the case in 1975, when America's life expectancy rivaled many on the list. If fact, obesity rates grew faster in the other countries from 1975 onwards, even though they overtook the USA in life expectancy and pulled ahead.

    Homicide and traffic fatalities have not increased significantly in their share of US deaths since 1975 either, the authors report.

    The authors believe the main problem lies in some failings in the US health care system. America spends a far higher percentage of GNP (gross national product) on health care than any of the other countries, but it has a system of unregulated fee-for-service payments and relies on specialty care, both of which push up prices without providing proportionate gains in life expectancy.

    Peter Muennig, assistant professor at Columbia University's Mailman School of Public Health, and lead author, said:

    It was shocking to see the U.S. falling behind other countries even as costs soared ahead of them. But what really surprised us was that all of the usual suspects - smoking, obesity, traffic accidents, and homicides - are not the culprits. The U.S. doesn't stand out as doing any worse in these areas than any of the other countries we studied, leading us to believe that failings in the U.S. health care system, such as costly specialized and fragmented care, are likely playing a large role in this relatively poor performance on improvements in life expectancy.

    Commonwealth Fund President Karen Davis, said:

    This study provides stark evidence that the U.S. health care system has been failing Americans for years. It is unacceptable that the U.S. obtains so much less than should be expected from its unusually high spending on health care relative to other countries." The good news is that the Affordable Care Act will take significant steps to improve our health care system and the health of Americans by expanding health insurance, improving primary care, and holding health care organizations accountable for their patients' overall health and ensuring the coordination of primary care and specialty care to eliminate errors, waste of patients' time, and wasteful duplication of tests and services.

    Health Care Spending and Life Expectancy (Source: OECD 2007)
    Australia
    Life expectancy 81.4 years
    Per capita health expenditure $3,137
    Percentage of GDP spent on health care 8.7%
    Canada
    Life expectancy 80.7 years
    Per capita health expenditure $3,895
    Percentage of GDP spent on health care 10.1%

    France
    Life expectancy 81 years
    Per capita health expenditure $3,601
    Percentage of GDP spent on health care 11%
    Germany
    Life expectancy 79.8 years
    Per capita health expenditure $3,588
    Percentage of GDP spent on health care 10.4%
    Japan
    Life expectancy 82.6 years
    Per capita health expenditure $2,581
    Percentage of GDP spent on health care 8.1%
    Norway
    Life expectancy 80 years
    Per capita health expenditure $5,910
    Percentage of GDP spent on health care 9%
    Spain
    Life expectancy 80 years Per capita health expenditure $2,871
    Percentage of GDP spent on health care 8.1%
    Sweden
    Life expectancy 81 years
    Per capita health expenditure $3,323
    Percentage of GDP spent on health care 9.2%
    United Kingdom
    Life expectancy 79.8 years
    Per capita health expenditure $2,992
    Percentage of GDP spent on health care 8.4%
    USA
    Life expectancy 78.1 years
    Per capita health expenditure $7,290
    Percentage of GDP spent on health care 16%

    35% of America's health care expenditure is incurred by private health insurance, the highest in the OECD. Despite spending significantly more on health care, there are fewer doctors per capita in the USA than in most other OECD countries.

    In 2006, infant mortality was 6.7 live births per 1,000 in the USA compared to an OECD average of 4.7.

    Source: The Commonwealth Fund, OECDhttp://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/203879.php
    "There is no question former President Trump bears moral responsibility. His supporters stormed the Capitol because of the unhinged falsehoods he shouted into the world’s largest megaphone," McConnell wrote. "His behavior during and after the chaos was also unconscionable, from attacking Vice President Mike Pence during the riot to praising the criminals after it ended."



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    OMG the shitty folks in the shitty socialist countries all live longer than the good ppl...
    "There is no question former President Trump bears moral responsibility. His supporters stormed the Capitol because of the unhinged falsehoods he shouted into the world’s largest megaphone," McConnell wrote. "His behavior during and after the chaos was also unconscionable, from attacking Vice President Mike Pence during the riot to praising the criminals after it ended."



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    Quote Originally Posted by GazzaQueen View Post
    Providers stopped providing Obamacare, leaving tens of millions of poor children to die in the streets.

    Thanks, Obama.
    "There is no question former President Trump bears moral responsibility. His supporters stormed the Capitol because of the unhinged falsehoods he shouted into the world’s largest megaphone," McConnell wrote. "His behavior during and after the chaos was also unconscionable, from attacking Vice President Mike Pence during the riot to praising the criminals after it ended."



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    Quote Originally Posted by cawacko View Post
    Let's be clear, we don't have free market health care in the U.S. We have a better system than most other countries but what we have is not free market
    All I mean by free market is to have CHOICE for IF you want h.c. and if you do, the CHOICE of WHAT company and plan you want and will pay for. I've done that since I was 18 and I'm 64 now. I either paid for it privately, used the Health Department or received my insurance through my employer. It's the simple American way. Individuals are responsible for living within their means and pay for their own way through life.
    Last edited by Stretch; 06-24-2017 at 09:02 PM.
    Abortion rights dogma can obscure human reason & harden the human heart so much that the same person who feels
    empathy for animal suffering can lack compassion for unborn children who experience lethal violence and excruciating
    pain in abortion.

    Unborn animals are protected in their nesting places, humans are not. To abort something is to end something
    which has begun. To abort life is to end it.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill View Post
    Why has this occurred, if such factors as smoking rates have dropped faster in the USA during the 30 year period of study than in the other countries?

    USA does have higher obesity rates than in the other countries. But this was also the case in 1975, when America's life expectancy rivaled many on the list. If fact, obesity rates grew faster in the other countries from 1975 onwards, even though they overtook the USA in life expectancy and pulled ahead.

    Homicide and traffic fatalities have not increased significantly in their share of US deaths since 1975 either, the authors report.

    The authors believe the main problem lies in some failings in the US health care system. America spends a far higher percentage of GNP (gross national product) on health care than any of the other countries, but it has a system of unregulated fee-for-service payments and relies on specialty care, both of which push up prices without providing proportionate gains in life expectancy.

    Peter Muennig, assistant professor at Columbia University's Mailman School of Public Health, and lead author, said:

    It was shocking to see the U.S. falling behind other countries even as costs soared ahead of them. But what really surprised us was that all of the usual suspects - smoking, obesity, traffic accidents, and homicides - are not the culprits. The U.S. doesn't stand out as doing any worse in these areas than any of the other countries we studied, leading us to believe that failings in the U.S. health care system, such as costly specialized and fragmented care, are likely playing a large role in this relatively poor performance on improvements in life expectancy.

    Commonwealth Fund President Karen Davis, said:

    This study provides stark evidence that the U.S. health care system has been failing Americans for years. It is unacceptable that the U.S. obtains so much less than should be expected from its unusually high spending on health care relative to other countries." The good news is that the Affordable Care Act will take significant steps to improve our health care system and the health of Americans by expanding health insurance, improving primary care, and holding health care organizations accountable for their patients' overall health and ensuring the coordination of primary care and specialty care to eliminate errors, waste of patients' time, and wasteful duplication of tests and services.

    Health Care Spending and Life Expectancy (Source: OECD 2007)
    Australia
    Life expectancy 81.4 years
    Per capita health expenditure $3,137
    Percentage of GDP spent on health care 8.7%
    Canada
    Life expectancy 80.7 years
    Per capita health expenditure $3,895
    Percentage of GDP spent on health care 10.1%

    France
    Life expectancy 81 years
    Per capita health expenditure $3,601
    Percentage of GDP spent on health care 11%
    Germany
    Life expectancy 79.8 years
    Per capita health expenditure $3,588
    Percentage of GDP spent on health care 10.4%
    Japan
    Life expectancy 82.6 years
    Per capita health expenditure $2,581
    Percentage of GDP spent on health care 8.1%
    Norway
    Life expectancy 80 years
    Per capita health expenditure $5,910
    Percentage of GDP spent on health care 9%
    Spain
    Life expectancy 80 years Per capita health expenditure $2,871
    Percentage of GDP spent on health care 8.1%
    Sweden
    Life expectancy 81 years
    Per capita health expenditure $3,323
    Percentage of GDP spent on health care 9.2%
    United Kingdom
    Life expectancy 79.8 years
    Per capita health expenditure $2,992
    Percentage of GDP spent on health care 8.4%
    USA
    Life expectancy 78.1 years
    Per capita health expenditure $7,290
    Percentage of GDP spent on health care 16%

    35% of America's health care expenditure is incurred by private health insurance, the highest in the OECD. Despite spending significantly more on health care, there are fewer doctors per capita in the USA than in most other OECD countries.

    In 2006, infant mortality was 6.7 live births per 1,000 in the USA compared to an OECD average of 4.7.

    Source: The Commonwealth Fund, OECDhttp://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/203879.php
    Why this occurred in Canada is outlined in the article.
    Abortion rights dogma can obscure human reason & harden the human heart so much that the same person who feels
    empathy for animal suffering can lack compassion for unborn children who experience lethal violence and excruciating
    pain in abortion.

    Unborn animals are protected in their nesting places, humans are not. To abort something is to end something
    which has begun. To abort life is to end it.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill View Post
    Ppl that can afford like our system, those that don't are going to be dying a lot sooner, just sayin, thnx trumpkins..
    State Public Health Departments have been around for ages.
    Abortion rights dogma can obscure human reason & harden the human heart so much that the same person who feels
    empathy for animal suffering can lack compassion for unborn children who experience lethal violence and excruciating
    pain in abortion.

    Unborn animals are protected in their nesting places, humans are not. To abort something is to end something
    which has begun. To abort life is to end it.



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