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Thread: MIT Atmospheric Scientist Richard Lindzen On Climate Change Exaggerations

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jade Dragon View Post
    Dumb fuck idiots denying climate change, when the extremes keep getting worse year after year. Just admit you people don't want to do certain things to make things better, because the being illiterate to climate only goes so far. Also listening to random scientists of a consensus of them, is just pathetic. Sorry, but I'll believe the consensus of scientists, that don't have anything to gain from it being the way they say it is, as opposed to random hacks likely paid off. Even with my non professor grade understanding of climate I can easily see the issues we are facing. I just hope I'm dead, and gone before we get to the told you so point in all this.
    What a load of cobblers!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Havana Moon View Post
    2017 was still being affected by the massive El Nino of 2016. It is no coincidence that 1998 was in second place as that coincided with a huge El Nino as well. The La Nina is now kicking in strongly so 2018 is likely to be back to normal.



    http://www.drroyspencer.com/2018/01/...17-0-41-deg-c/


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    "A warming El Niño event was in effect for most of 2015 and the first third of 2016. Even without an El Niño event – and with a La Niña starting in the later months of 2017 – last year’s temperatures ranked between 2015 and 2016 in NASA’s records."

    "In an analysis where the effects of the recent El Niño and La Niña patterns were statistically removed from the record, 2017 would have been the warmest year on record."

    https://www.nasa.gov/press-release/l...2017-nasa-noaa

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    Quote Originally Posted by archives View Post
    "A warming El Niño event was in effect for most of 2015 and the first third of 2016. Even without an El Niño event – and with a La Niña starting in the later months of 2017 – last year’s temperatures ranked between 2015 and 2016 in NASA’s records."

    "In an analysis where the effects of the recent El Niño and La Niña patterns were statistically removed from the record, 2017 would have been the warmest year on record."

    https://www.nasa.gov/press-release/l...2017-nasa-noaa
    The satellite record is far more accurate and less granular that the land and ocean temperatures. The question you should be asking is why isn't NASA GISS using their own satellites instead of ARGO buoys and intake water from ships? There was an 18 year pause in rising temperatures, halted only by the most powerful El Nino since 1998. It is fully expected that the pause will resume. Indeed there is a head of steam building to suggest that a new Maunder Minimum is approaching.

    https://www.cato.org/blog/more-data-...se-about-start

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    Last edited by cancel2 2022; 01-20-2018 at 03:35 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Havana Moon View Post
    Part 2

    Arctic sea ice:

    Satellites have been observing arctic (and Antarctic) sea ice since 1979. Every year there is a pronounced annual cycle where the almost complete winter coverage is much reduced each summer. During this period there has been a noticeable downtrend is summer ice in the arctic (with the opposite behavior in the Antarctic), though in recent years, the coverage appears to have stabilized. In terms of climate change, 40 years is, of course, a rather short interval. Still, there have been the inevitable attempts to extrapolate short period trends leading to claims that the arctic should have already reached ice free conditions. Extrapolating short term trends is obviously inappropriate. Extrapolating surface temperature changes from dawn to dusk would lead to a boiling climate in days. This would be silly. The extrapolation of arctic summer ice coverage looks like it might be comparably silly. Moreover, although the satellite coverage is immensely better than what was previously available, the data is far from perfect. The satellites can confuse ice topped with melt water with ice free regions. In addition, temperature might not be the main cause of reduced sea ice coverage. Summer ice tends to be fragile, and changing winds play an important role in blowing ice out of the arctic sea. Associating changing summer sea ice coverage with climate change is, itself, dubious. Existing climate models hardly unambiguously predict the observed behavior. Predictions for 2100 range from no change to complete disappearance. Thus, it cannot be said that the sea ice behavior confirms any plausible prediction.

    It is sometimes noted that concerns for disappearing arctic sea ice were issued in 1922, suggesting that such behavior is not unique to the present. The data used, at that time, came from the neighborhood of Spitzbergen. A marine biologist and climate campaigner has argued that what was described was a local phenomenon, but, despite the claim, the evidence presented by the author is far from conclusive. Among other things, the author was selective in his choice of ‘evidence.’

    All one can say, at this point, is that the behavior of arctic sea ice represents one of the numerous interesting phenomena that the earth presents us with, and for which neither the understanding nor the needed records exist. It probably pays to note that melting sea ice does not contribute to sea level rise. Moreover, man has long dreamt of the opening of this Northwest Passage. It is curious that it is now viewed with alarm. Of course, as Mencken noted, “The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by an endless series of hobgoblins, most of them imaginary.” The environmental movement has elevated this aim well beyond what Mencken noted.

    Polar bear meme:

    I suspect that Al Gore undertook considerable focus-group research to determine the remarkable effectiveness of the notion that climate change would endanger polar bears. His use of an obviously photo shopped picture of a pathetic polar bear on an ice float suggests this. As Susan Crockford, a specialist in polar bear evolution, points out, there had indeed been a significant decrease in polar bear population in the past due to hunting and earlier due to commercial exploitation of polar bear fur. This has led to successful protective measures and sufficient recovery of polar bear population, that hunting has again been permitted. There is no evidence that changes in summer sea ice have had any adverse impact on polar bear population, and, given that polar bears can swim for over a hundred miles, there seems to be little reason to suppose that it would. Nonetheless, for the small community of polar bear experts, the climate related concerns have presented an obvious attraction.

    Ocean acidification:

    This is again one of those obscure claims that sounds scary but doesn’t stand up to scrutiny. Ever since the acid rain scare, it has been realized that the public responds with alarm to anything with the word ‘acid’ in it. In point of fact, the ocean is basic rather than acidic (ie, its ph is always appreciably higher than 7, and there is no possibility of increasing levels of atmospheric CO2 bringing it down to 7; note that ph is a measure of acidity or basicness: values greater than 7 are basic and less than 7 acid.), and the purported changes simply refer to making the ocean a bit less basic. However, such a more correct description would lack the scare component. As usual, there is so much wrong with this claim that it takes a fairly long article to go over it all. I recommend the following source.

    Death of coral reefs:

    The alleged death of coral reefs is partly linked to the acidification issue above, and as we see, the linkage is almost opposite to what is claimed. There is also the matter of warming per se leading to coral bleaching. A typical alarmist presentation can be found here.
    The article is behind a pay wall, but most universities provide access to Nature. The reasoned response to this paper is provided here.
    As Steele, the author of the above, points out, bleaching has common causes other than warming and is far from a death sentence for corals whose capacity to recover is substantial. This article is a bit polemical, but essentially correct.

    Global warming as the cause of everything:

    As we see from the above, there is a tendency to blame everything unpleasant on global warming. The absurd extent of this tendency is illustrated on the following here. That hasn’t stopped the EPA from using such stuff to claim large health benefits for its climate change policies. Moreover, I fear that with so many claims, there is always the question ‘what about ….?’ Hardly anyone has the time and energy to deal with the huge number of claims. Fortunately, most are self-evidently absurd. Nation magazine recently came up with what is a bit of a champion is this regard. CO2, it should be noted, is hardly poisonous. On the contrary, it is essential for life on our planet and levels as high as 5000 ppm are considered safe on our submarines and on the space station (current atmospheric levels are around 400 ppm, while, due to our breathing, indoor levels can be much higher). The Nation article is typical in that it makes many bizarre claims in a brief space. It argues that a runaway greenhouse effect on Venus led to temperatures hot enough to melt lead. Of course, no one can claim that the earth is subject to such a runaway, but even on Venus, the hot surface depends primarily on the closeness of Venus to the sun and the existence of a dense sulfuric acid cloud covering the planet. Relatedly, Mars, which also has much more CO2 than the earth, is much further from the sun and very cold. As we have seen many times already, such matters are mere details when one is in the business of scaring the public.

    Concluding remarks:

    The accumulation of false and/or misleading claims is often referred to as the ‘overwhelming evidence’ for forthcoming catastrophe. Without these claims, one might legitimately ask whether there is any evidence at all. Despite this, climate change has been the alleged motivation for numerous policies, which, for the most part, seem to have done more harm than the purported climate change, and have the obvious capacity to do much more. Perhaps the best that can be said for these efforts is that they are acknowledged to have little impact on either CO2 levels or temperatures despite their immense cost. This is relatively good news since there is ample evidence that both changes are likely to be beneficial although the immense waste of money is not.

    I haven’t spent much time on the details of the science, but there is one thing that should spark skepticism in any intelligent reader. The system we are looking at consists in two turbulent fluids interacting with each other. They are on a rotating planet that is differentially heated by the sun. A vital constituent of the atmospheric component is water in the liquid, solid and vapor phases, and the changes in phase have vast energetic ramifications. The energy budget of this system involves the absorption and reemission of about 200 watts per square meter. Doubling CO2 involves a 2% perturbation to this budget. So do minor changes in clouds and other features, and such changes are common. In this complex multifactor system, what is the likelihood of the climate (which, itself, consists in many variables and not just globally averaged temperature anomaly) is controlled by this 2% perturbation in a single variable? Believing this is pretty close to believing in magic. Instead, you are told that it is believing in ‘science.’ Such a claim should be a tip-off that something is amiss. After all, science is a mode of inquiry rather than a belief structure.


    Richard Lindzen is the Alfred P. Sloan Professor of Atmospheric Sciences, Emeritus at Massachusetts Institute of Technology.

    http://merionwest.com/2017/04/25/ric...limate-change/

    http://merionwest.com/2017/04/25/ric...limate-change/
    Every life matters

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    Quote Originally Posted by Havana Moon View Post
    The satellite record is far more accurate and less granular that the land and ocean temperatures. The question you should be asking is why isn't NASA GISS using their own satellites instead of ARGO buoys and intake water from ships? There was an 18 year pause in rising temperatures, halted only by the most powerful El Nino since 1998. It is fully expected that the pause will resume. Indeed there is a head of steam building to suggest that a new Maunder Minimum is approaching.

    https://www.cato.org/blog/more-data-...se-about-start

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    You do know what the Cato Institute is and who funds it correct?

    And now, to add another swerve from the topic, fog catcher wants to know why NASA doesn't use their own satellites. Really?

    I guess you'd have to ask NASA that question, but I'd have to assume their reasons probably are going to make more sense than your supposed inference as to why they don't

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    Quote Originally Posted by archives View Post
    You do know what the Cato Institute is and who funds it correct?

    And now, to add another swerve from the topic, fog catcher wants to know why NASA doesn't use their own satellites. Really?

    I guess you'd have to ask NASA that question, but I'd have to assume their reasons probably are going to make more sense than your supposed inference as to why they don't
    I know why they don't, it is far easier to play fast and loose with the data. Far harder to do with the datasets maintained by RSS and UAH.

    I am done with you now, it is patently obvious that you have no understanding of the issues or the methodologies used, rendering any fruitful discussion pointless



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    Last edited by cancel2 2022; 01-20-2018 at 05:23 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jade Dragon View Post
    Dumb fuck idiots denying climate change, when the extremes keep getting worse year after year. Just admit you people don't want to do certain things to make things better, because the being illiterate to climate only goes so far. Also listening to random scientists of a consensus of them, is just pathetic. Sorry, but I'll believe the consensus of scientists, that don't have anything to gain from it being the way they say it is, as opposed to random hacks likely paid off. Even with my non professor grade understanding of climate I can easily see the issues we are facing. I just hope I'm dead, and gone before we get to the told you so point in all this.
    The data does not support your assertion. Storms have not increased nor worsened. Go find the data and you'll see, you stupid religious alarmist

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    Quote Originally Posted by Havana Moon View Post
    I know why they don't, it is far easier to play fast and loose with the data. Far harder to do with the datasets maintained by RSS and UAH.

    I am done with you now, it is patently obvious that you have no understanding of the issues or the methodologies used, rendering anything discussion pointless



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    Oh, NASA is purposely fooling the public, but the "roy spencers" of the world authoring op eds on a climate change denier website are the authority

    That pretty much sums up where fog catcher is coming from, NASA lies, says it all

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    Quote Originally Posted by archives View Post
    Oh, NASA is purposely fooling the public, but the "roy spencers" of the world authoring op eds on a climate change denier website are the authority

    That pretty much sums up where fog catcher is coming from, NASA lies, says it all
    It is plainly obvious that you've absolutely no idea who Dr. Roy Spencer is, proving my point exactly. For your information he maintains the UAH satellite dataset at the University of Alabama Huntsville with Dr. John Christy and worked for NASA until 2001.

    Sadly I am done with you, you've proved to be incredibly badly informed and a true dullard.



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    Last edited by cancel2 2022; 01-20-2018 at 05:37 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Havana Moon View Post
    It is plainly obvious that you've absolutely no idea who Dr. Roy Spencer is, proving my point exactly. For your information he maintains the UAH satellite dataset at the University of Alabama Huntsville with Dr. John Christy and worked for NASA until 2001.



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    That was 16 years ago, now did he play "fast and loose with the data" when he was at NASA?

    What you fail to acknowledge is that for all these individuals you keep bring up as supposed experts in the field that deny man made climate change there are nine other such Scientists that disagree with them

    I'm going with the probability

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    Quote Originally Posted by archives View Post
    That was 16 years ago, now did he play "fast and loose with the data" when he was at NASA?

    What you fail to acknowledge is that for all these individuals you keep bring up as supposed experts in the field that deny man made climate change there are nine other such Scientists that disagree with them

    I'm going with the probability
    Fine, you do that and don't try to argue above your paygrade then.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Havana Moon View Post
    Fine, you do that and don't try to argue above your paygrade then.

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    Oh, took it personal, and I thought the fog catchers were suppose to thick skinned

    Does that mean I made the ignore and ban list again?

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    Quote Originally Posted by archives View Post
    Oh, took it personal, and I thought the fog catchers were suppose to thick skinned

    Does that mean I made the ignore and ban list again?
    You're incredibly thick, almost Deshian!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigdog View Post
    You know liberal low information voters will never read any of this. They prefer to be spoonfed by Al Gorians.
    According to liberals we're supposed to believe in global warming even when we're freezing our asses off.

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    Quote Originally Posted by archives View Post
    Oh, took it personal, and I thought the fog catchers were suppose to thick skinned

    Does that mean I made the ignore and ban list again?
    Just stating the truth, you're not very well informed on the subject.

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