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Thread: How Delta masters the game of overbooking flights (free markets not force)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Althea View Post
    Many people are happy to take credits in exchange for being bumped. The United case wasn't about overbooking. The flight wasn't overbooked. You don't get removed from your seat after boarding if you are getting 'bumped'.
    So what was it about.? Did they think the good doctor was a threat??

    Something else fishy about this is that the media cartels say the doc is 69 but he looks much younger.
    Reckless drivers are a bigger threat to you than all other criminals put together!

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    Delta is handling this problem the smart way though i think it would be better if they gave you a check instead of vouchers.
    Reckless drivers are a bigger threat to you than all other criminals put together!

    THE BIG LIE - Blacks and whites are different physically but identical mentally!

    There is no way 81 million americans voted for a man they know is a child molester w dementia. Impeach Joe the Pedophile Vegetable (JPV)

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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperstringTheory View Post
    It is ultimately overbooking. There were more ticket holders than available seats.

    Moving crew is something they do regularly and for some good reasons they give them priority, The problem is how do you resolve the issue of too many tickets/not enough seats.

    United called for a big government bailout. The right solution would have been to offer more money until someone agreed to be bumped.

    Maybe the government should just charge $10000 for the service of passenger removal. I am pretty sure someone would have taken less than $10000 to give up their seat.
    Not to be an apologist for United but the local cops are hardly big government and they were probably clueless that the cops would beat his ass.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tsuke View Post
    united went the cheap route. They stopped offering at 800$ and instead offered to forcibly remove the person. They made a judgement call that the bad pr would be worth less than 800$.
    i wouldn't take the travel vouchers. I volunteered once to give up my seat for a travel voucher to fly anywhere in the continental US. It came with so many restrictions I couldn't use it. I'll never do that again.
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  5. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Mott the Hoople For This Post:

    Althea (04-12-2017), Phantasmal (04-13-2017)

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    Quote Originally Posted by cawacko View Post
    Excellent column from The Grumpy Economist on the United situation and personalized tickets to price discriminate. I hadn't thought of it from this perspective.



    Commentators seem to have noticed a lot of the economics of the United fiasco: Yes, don't stop auctions at $800. (WSJ review and outlook.) Yes, if you need employees at Louisville so badly, call up American and buy a first class ticket. Book a private jet. Or, heck, you're an airline. Bring up another plane. Don't drag people off planes to save a measly $500.

    The one economic point that I haven't seen: the whole issue also comes down to airlines' use of personalized tickets to price discriminate. (And most of the TSA's job is to enforce that price discrimination by making sure you are the name on the ticket.) If you could resell tickets, the problem would go away. Then the airline must sell only as many tickets as there are seats on the plane, as concerts do. If people aren't going to show, they put their tickets on ebay -- or another quick peer to peer ticket trade platform -- and someone else buys them. Including the airline, if it wants to send employees around. Standby disappears -- want to get on the plane? Bid for a ticket. We still get efficiently full planes -- fuller, even -- nobody ever gets bumped, and the auction for the last seat is going on constantly.

    Yes, one of the hardest lessons in economics is that price discrimination can be efficient. Business class cross subsidizes leisure and pays for fixed costs. But the airlines could speculate in their own tickets as well, so its' not clear in a data mining race that scalpers would reap the price discrimination profits better than the airlines themselves.

    Holman Jenkins adds, in a brilliant column,

    While we’re at it, what’s wrong with Chicago airport security? Did not a single officer say, “I’m having no part of this. If United can’t deal with its
    overbooking mistakes in a civilized, non-cheapskate way, how is it my job to manhandle innocent customers?” This also smacks of our national malaise
    —police who need an armored personnel carrier before they’ll roll up and serve a warrant, who wait outside Columbine High until they’re sure the
    shooting has stopped.

    And do not the other passengers rebel at seeing such treatment? Well, maybe not the first time, but I suspect the next time they try to drag a customer off an overbooked plane, there will be a riot.


    http://johnhcochrane.blogspot.com/20...l?spref=tw&m=1
    Talk about a poor business decision. Uniteds heavy handed tactics have cost far more money then just about anything else they could have done.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperstringTheory View Post
    So that is your excuse for supporting more government/socialism for the rich?

    The free market could have solved this easily. But since it might hurt United you are ok with big government stepping in to save them from their mistake.
    Oh spare me the free market fundamentalism! Common sense would dictate that this would blow up into a PR disaster.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Althea View Post
    Many people are happy to take credits in exchange for being bumped.
    so?
    Quote Originally Posted by Althea View Post
    The United case wasn't about overbooking. The flight wasn't overbooked.
    then they would have no reason to say that they were, right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Althea View Post
    You don't get removed from your seat after boarding if you are getting 'bumped'.
    then what happens when you DO get bumped?
    A sad commentary on we, as a people, and our viewpoint of our freedom can be summed up like this. We have liberals and conservatives, Democrats and Republicans, yet those very people look at Constitutionalists as radical and extreme.................so those liberals and conservatives, Democrats and Republicans must believe that the constitution is radical and extreme.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mott the Hoople View Post
    Not to be an apologist for United but the local cops are hardly big government and they were probably clueless that the cops would beat his ass.
    not to be a realist, but they called their closest government enforcement agents with full power to do what they needed, so how is that not big government?
    A sad commentary on we, as a people, and our viewpoint of our freedom can be summed up like this. We have liberals and conservatives, Democrats and Republicans, yet those very people look at Constitutionalists as radical and extreme.................so those liberals and conservatives, Democrats and Republicans must believe that the constitution is radical and extreme.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mott the Hoople View Post
    i wouldn't take the travel vouchers. I volunteered once to give up my seat for a travel voucher to fly anywhere in the continental US. It came with so many restrictions I couldn't use it. I'll never do that again.
    The company was within their rights to offer it They figured the PR hit is worth less than 800 Corporations have the right to do stupid things.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mott the Hoople View Post
    Not to be an apologist for United but the local cops are hardly big government and they were probably clueless that the cops would beat his ass.

    Cops are part of the government. To me, "big government" means illegitimate government. According to google that's the common way it is used. What does it mean to you?

    Cops tend to settle things by threatening and then using force. Who does not know that?
    Leviticus 19:33 And if a stranger sojourn with thee in your land, ye shall not do him wrong. 34 The stranger that sojourneth with you shall be unto you as the homeborn among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mott the Hoople View Post
    Oh spare me the free market fundamentalism! Common sense would dictate that this would blow up into a PR disaster.

    What ru on about? I have not said a damn thing about the "pr disaster." That's not really the market solution. The market solution would have been to tell them to offer more for passengers to accept being bumped.
    Leviticus 19:33 And if a stranger sojourn with thee in your land, ye shall not do him wrong. 34 The stranger that sojourneth with you shall be unto you as the homeborn among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperstringTheory View Post
    It is ultimately overbooking. There were more ticket holders than available seats.

    Moving crew is something they do regularly and for some good reasons they give them priority, The problem is how do you resolve the issue of too many tickets/not enough seats.

    United called for a big government bailout. The right solution would have been to offer more money until someone agreed to be bumped.

    Maybe the government should just charge $10000 for the service of passenger removal. I am pretty sure someone would have taken less than $10000 to give up their seat.
    This flight was not over booked. It's common for every airline to overbook, assuming some will change their plans. That's not the case here, or the 4 passengers who got bumped would not have been allowed to board.

    United should have booked the staff on another airline, or put them on a train. But this wasn't the way to go about making last minute changes.
    Once in a while you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cawacko View Post
    Excellent column from The Grumpy Economist on the United situation and personalized tickets to price discriminate. I hadn't thought of it from this perspective.



    Commentators seem to have noticed a lot of the economics of the United fiasco: Yes, don't stop auctions at $800. (WSJ review and outlook.) Yes, if you need employees at Louisville so badly, call up American and buy a first class ticket. Book a private jet. Or, heck, you're an airline. Bring up another plane. Don't drag people off planes to save a measly $500.

    The one economic point that I haven't seen: the whole issue also comes down to airlines' use of personalized tickets to price discriminate. (And most of the TSA's job is to enforce that price discrimination by making sure you are the name on the ticket.) If you could resell tickets, the problem would go away. Then the airline must sell only as many tickets as there are seats on the plane, as concerts do. If people aren't going to show, they put their tickets on ebay -- or another quick peer to peer ticket trade platform -- and someone else buys them. Including the airline, if it wants to send employees around. Standby disappears -- want to get on the plane? Bid for a ticket. We still get efficiently full planes -- fuller, even -- nobody ever gets bumped, and the auction for the last seat is going on constantly.

    Yes, one of the hardest lessons in economics is that price discrimination can be efficient. Business class cross subsidizes leisure and pays for fixed costs. But the airlines could speculate in their own tickets as well, so its' not clear in a data mining race that scalpers would reap the price discrimination profits better than the airlines themselves.

    Holman Jenkins adds, in a brilliant column,

    While we’re at it, what’s wrong with Chicago airport security? Did not a single officer say, “I’m having no part of this. If United can’t deal with its
    overbooking mistakes in a civilized, non-cheapskate way, how is it my job to manhandle innocent customers?” This also smacks of our national malaise
    —police who need an armored personnel carrier before they’ll roll up and serve a warrant, who wait outside Columbine High until they’re sure the
    shooting has stopped.

    And do not the other passengers rebel at seeing such treatment? Well, maybe not the first time, but I suspect the next time they try to drag a customer off an overbooked plane, there will be a riot.


    http://johnhcochrane.blogspot.com/20...l?spref=tw&m=1
    First....reselling tix opens up myriad natl. security issues. And the passengers did indeed rebel as the cops dragged that guy off the plane.
    Once in a while you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Text Drivers are Killers View Post
    So what was it about.? Did they think the good doctor was a threat??

    Something else fishy about this is that the media cartels say the doc is 69 but he looks much younger.
    Last minute decision to transport 4 employees to Kentucky.
    Once in a while you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SmarterthanYou View Post
    so?

    then they would have no reason to say that they were, right?


    then what happens when you DO get bumped?
    You get bumped at the gate before you board. It's common for the attendant at the desk to announce the over booked status, and start making offers. Why the hell would they board people, only to yank them off? This was a last minute decision to transport employees.
    Once in a while you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right.

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