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Thread: Russia must pay

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    Would you favor NATO pulling out of the east?? All/some??
    "There is no question former President Trump bears moral responsibility. His supporters stormed the Capitol because of the unhinged falsehoods he shouted into the world’s largest megaphone," McConnell wrote. "His behavior during and after the chaos was also unconscionable, from attacking Vice President Mike Pence during the riot to praising the criminals after it ended."



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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill View Post
    Would you favor NATO pulling out of the east?? All/some??
    not without extracting de-escalation/demilitarization by Russia.

    The problem is it's not even stable in the east. Russia has damn good weapons systems now -no more Soviet junk.
    It's a dangerous costly situation and it's just getting worse

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    Quote Originally Posted by anatta View Post
    not without extracting de-escalation/demilitarization by Russia.

    The problem is it's not even stable in the east. Russia has damn good weapons systems now -no more Soviet junk.
    It's a dangerous costly situation and it's just getting worse
    Not sure what you mean by extracting deescalation but should they be restricted from having their military where ever the fuck they want in their own country??

    While we move our offensive military back from 6,000 miles from home to say only 5,000 miles from home??
    "There is no question former President Trump bears moral responsibility. His supporters stormed the Capitol because of the unhinged falsehoods he shouted into the world’s largest megaphone," McConnell wrote. "His behavior during and after the chaos was also unconscionable, from attacking Vice President Mike Pence during the riot to praising the criminals after it ended."



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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill View Post
    Not sure what you mean by extracting deescalation but should they be restricted from having their military where ever the fuck they want in their own country??

    While we move our offensive military back from 6,000 miles from home to say only 5,000 miles from home??
    you can't just ask NATO or Russia to simply abandon front lines.
    You can start a PROCESS of de-escalation is what I'm saying..all that gets worked out.

    To do ANY OF THIS requires talks. There aren't even low level talks going on now.
    Kerry had ceased meeting with Lavrov except for perfunctory updates on Syria.

    Tillerson is supposed to go to Moscow in early April..he got all this Russiaphobia baggage he has to carry.
    Hopefully they start some talks to normalization,but you can bet the Dems will scream about it.

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    You were around for Cold War 1,same as me. They held low level talks constantly to keep from escalations.
    Low level talks lead to crafting treaty talks -which are then ironed out at the Summit level for the big flourish/signings.

    That process worked..do it again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by anatta View Post
    You were around for Cold War 1,same as me. They held low level talks constantly to keep from escalations.
    Low level talks lead to crafting treaty talks -which are then ironed out at the Summit level for the big flourish/signings.

    That process worked..do it again.
    Yes I was... I agree, just one small problem I keep mentioning over & over again that makes that much, much more difficult.....
    "There is no question former President Trump bears moral responsibility. His supporters stormed the Capitol because of the unhinged falsehoods he shouted into the world’s largest megaphone," McConnell wrote. "His behavior during and after the chaos was also unconscionable, from attacking Vice President Mike Pence during the riot to praising the criminals after it ended."



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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill View Post
    Yes I was... I agree, just one small problem I keep mentioning over & over again that makes that much, much more difficult.....
    i don't think so. it's amazing what talks can accomplish. ..but check this out..our old friend James Clapper does get around!
    ++
    Putin tells Le Pen Russia has no plans to meddle in French election
    peaking after their meeting, Le Pen said Putin represented “a sovereign nation” and “new vision”.
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-pen-in-moscow
    “A new world has emerged in the past years. This is Vladimir Putin’s world, Donald Trump’s world in the United States, Mr [Narendra] Modi’s world in India,” she added.

    “I think I am probably the one who shares with all these great nations a vision of cooperation and not one of subservience - a hawkish vision that has too often been expressed by the European Union.”

    Russian support for Le Pen appears to have similar roots to the well-publicised backing of Donald Trump. There is both the pro-Moscow rhetoric of the candidate, and the broader goal of supporting a “chaos” candidate who would be likely to erode European unity on issues such as sanctions against Russia.

    Le Pen has publicly backed the Russian annexation of Crimea and frequently expressed admiration for Putin.

    A Russian hackers’ collective released emails that appeared to show Le Pen had received a loan from a Russian bank in 2014 in return for taking pro-Moscow positions in public.

    Le Pen has denied those allegations, but makes no secret of the fact that the Front National has taken loans from foreign banks because French financial institutions refuse to fund the presidential campaign.

    On Friday Le Pen said the subject of Russian financial backing for her party had not come up in her meeting with Putin. She did, however, reaffirm her position that if elected she would seek a swift removal of EU sanctions on Russia.

    Earlier in the day she had called on Russia and France to work together to save the world from “globalisation and Islamic fundamentalism”, two of her campaign issues. “I’m a totally free woman,” she said. “I don’t want to be under the yoke of the US … I don’t want to be under the yoke of Russia.

    “We are in a period where conspiracy theories appear to be very much in fashion. As soon as something goes wrong, it’s Russia’s fault. This makes me smile.”
    Last year, Le Canard Enchaîné, the French satirical newspaper, reported that Mike Turner, a Republican on the US House of Representatives’ permanent select committee on intelligence, had urged American intelligence agencies to look into Le Pen’s Russia connections.


    James Clapper, the then director of national intelligence, wrote in a letter dated 28 November that the Front National “publicly acknowledged that it had received a $9.8m loan from a Russian bank with links to the Kremlin, allegedly brokered by a sanctioned Russian Duma deputy, according to French press reports”.

    The Front National treasurer, Wallerand de Saint-Just, has insisted Le Pen’s visit is not a campaign fundraising exercise. His comments came as party members admitted they were still short of millions to run the campaign.

    Opinion polls suggest Le Pen and the independent centrist Emmanuel Macron will go through from the first-round presidential vote on 23 April to the second round run-off on 7 May.

    Putin also has a good relationship with the rightwing Les Républicains candidate François Fillon, who also looks favourably on Moscow.

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    Bill (03-25-2017)

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    Quote Originally Posted by anatta View Post
    not without extracting de-escalation/demilitarization by Russia.

    The problem is it's not even stable in the east. Russia has damn good weapons systems now -no more Soviet junk.
    It's a dangerous costly situation and it's just getting worse
    I can definitely picture Russia going for this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chlorate View Post
    I can definitely picture Russia going for this.
    Cold War 2.0 is not to Putin's advantage..but to just gin it up constantly causes great risks and money fro NATO also
    Kissinger: “demonization of Vladimir Putin is not a policy; it is an alibi for the absence of one.”
    ________

    Cold War 2.0 Russia hysteria is turning people’s brains into guacamole.
    We’ve got to find a way to snap out of the propaganda trance
    ________

    Buddha: "trust the person who seeks truth and mistrust the person who claims he has found it "
    1.2.3.4.5.6.7. All Good Children Go to Heaven

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    Quote Originally Posted by anatta View Post
    Cold War 2.0 is not to Putin's advantage..but to just gin it up constantly causes great risks and money fro NATO also
    But Putin, the ex-KGB spook is savvy enough to know that there are many people in the West, like you, like Trump, et al. who will provide cover for him and provide excuses for him, thus tempering any Western responses as he seeks to re-constitute, in some form or other, the old Russian empire, the old Russian sphere of influence and domination

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
    But Putin, the ex-KGB spook is savvy enough to know that there are many people in the West, like you, like Trump, et al. who will provide cover for him and provide excuses for him, thus tempering any Western responses as he seeks to re-constitute, in some form or other, the old Russian empire, the old Russian sphere of influence and domination
    You sir prove the crack epidemic in this country is alive and well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
    But Putin, the ex-KGB spook is savvy enough to know that there are many people in the West, like you, like Trump, et al. who will provide cover for him and provide excuses for him, thus tempering any Western responses as he seeks to re-constitute, in some form or other, the old Russian empire, the old Russian sphere of influence and domination
    This was literally the problem during the latter half of the Cold War. Glad to see some of us remember our history.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chlorate View Post
    And some of us did not learn a damn thing...
    Trump nor any other President is or has attempted to help Russia increase its sphere of influence or domination.

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