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Thread: Smog In Western U.S. Starts Out As Pollution In Asia, Researchers Say

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    Default Smog In Western U.S. Starts Out As Pollution In Asia, Researchers Say

    ????Thoughts???



    Nitrogen oxide pollution in India and China are offsetting U.S. gains in cutting emissions, researchers say. This photo from October shows road traffic, along with smoke and smog, in front of the landmark India Gate in New Delhi.

    The U.S. is producing less air pollution — but smog levels are still rising in the western U.S., due to pollutants released in Asian countries that then drift over the Pacific Ocean. Researchers say their findings show the importance of a global approach to preserving air quality.

    "Scientists found Asian air pollution contributed as much as 65 percent of an increase in Western ozone in recent years," NPR's Rob Schmitz reports from Shanghai. "China and India, where many consumer products are manufactured, are the worst offenders."

    The problem, scientists say, is that Asian countries' emissions of nitrogen oxides — which sunlight then break down in reactions that produce ozone — have tripled since 1990. When those harmful gases circulate to North America, they offset gains in U.S. air quality that have come from cutting nitrogen oxide emissions by 50 percent.

    The researchers say that as China continues to cut its nitrogen oxide emissions, "rising global methane and NOx emissions in the tropical countries (e.g., India) in Asia, where O3 [ozone] production is more efficient, may become more important in the coming decades."

    "A global perspective is necessary when designing a strategy to meet US O3 air quality objectives," the scientists wrote.

    The research was published in the journal Atmospheric Chemistry and Physics.

    The study looked at levels of ground-level ozone (the key component in smog) from 1980 to 2014. To determine U.S. trends, pollution levels in cities, rural areas and national parks were collated. Scientist Meiyun Lin of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration led the work, along with others from her agency and the Environmental Protection Agency.

    They concluded that the spike in man-made emissions in Asia "is the major driver" of the rise in ozone levels in the western U.S. for both spring and summer in recent decades. The researchers cited data that ranges from Joshua Tree National Park in Southern California to observations in Denver, Colo., and the eastern U.S.

    According to the EPA, high levels of ground-level ozone "can be harmful to people, animals, crops, and other materials." The agency adds, "Ozone can aggravate asthma, and can inflame and damage cells that line your lungs."

    The study's authors said their work was funded by NASA grants and also used ozone data that's freely available online.
    "There is no question former President Trump bears moral responsibility. His supporters stormed the Capitol because of the unhinged falsehoods he shouted into the world’s largest megaphone," McConnell wrote. "His behavior during and after the chaos was also unconscionable, from attacking Vice President Mike Pence during the riot to praising the criminals after it ended."



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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill View Post
    ????Thoughts?
    First of all it's refreshing to see someone from the left talk about actual pollution for a change.
    Secondly, all of SE Asia that I saw was filthy. Another tourist I met who lives in China says it's the same.
    Our cleaning lady says any Asia household she cleans is disgusting and she charges more. Don't know, guess it's the culture.
    We can't force other countries to change their culture, so nothing really can be done. Just be grateful we and Western Europe are far more civilized when it comes to cleanliness.

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    Sanitation in East Asia/SE Asia is certainly not up to American standards but I am afraid we will be moving backwards if the so called precedent starts allowing more pollution here, adding to the already growing problem.......

    When I was a kid rivers in this country could catch on fire..

    I lived about a mile from the east bay foot hills & the smog was so bad you couldn't see them.........

    We would climb them, above the smog & could see the bay bridge 50 miles away, but not my friends house 500 ft below us..
    "There is no question former President Trump bears moral responsibility. His supporters stormed the Capitol because of the unhinged falsehoods he shouted into the world’s largest megaphone," McConnell wrote. "His behavior during and after the chaos was also unconscionable, from attacking Vice President Mike Pence during the riot to praising the criminals after it ended."



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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill View Post
    Sanitation in East Asia/SE Asia is certainly not up to American standards but I am afraid we will be moving backwards if the so called precedent starts allowing more pollution here, adding to the already growing problem.......
    ??? Now what the heck is the 'so called precedent'? No way we go backwards to litter and actual unhealthy pollution. Who the hell wants that?

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    Quote Originally Posted by aloysious View Post
    ??? Now what the heck is the 'so called precedent'? No way we go backwards to litter and actual unhealthy pollution. Who the hell wants that?
    Coal & cutting back on eviro regs can lead to that...........
    "There is no question former President Trump bears moral responsibility. His supporters stormed the Capitol because of the unhinged falsehoods he shouted into the world’s largest megaphone," McConnell wrote. "His behavior during and after the chaos was also unconscionable, from attacking Vice President Mike Pence during the riot to praising the criminals after it ended."



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    Quote Originally Posted by aloysious View Post
    First of all it's refreshing to see someone from the left talk about actual pollution for a change.
    Secondly, all of SE Asia that I saw was filthy. Another tourist I met who lives in China says it's the same.
    Our cleaning lady says any Asia household she cleans is disgusting and she charges more. Don't know, guess it's the culture.
    We can't force other countries to change their culture, so nothing really can be done. Just be grateful we and Western Europe are far more civilized when it comes to cleanliness.
    That is just ocean going bollocks, Thai and Vietnamese people are clean almost to the point of obsession. Every house is pristine inside and if you really want to piss people off, don't take your shoes off. Thai women usually take at least two showers a day and maybe more. If a Thai says you are key men, it's not flattery, she is saying you smell like shit!!

    http://tastythailand.com/how-many-sh...normally-take/

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    Last edited by cancel2 2022; 03-05-2017 at 12:52 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill View Post
    Coal & cutting back on eviro regs can lead to that...........
    The reason the US is much cleaner now is because you've exported your pollution to China and India.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Milagro View Post
    That is just ocean going bollocks, Thai and Vietnamese people are clean almost to the point of obsession. Every house is pristine inside and if you really want to piss people off, don't take your shoes off. Thai women usually take at least two showers a day and maybe more. If a Thai says you are key men, it's not flattery, she is saying you smell like shit!!

    http://tastythailand.com/how-many-sh...normally-take/

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    Well, then it must only be where tourists go, I guess. Never seen so much filth anywhere in my life, ever. It was beyond disgusting what I saw.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aloysious View Post
    Well, then it must only be where tourists go, I guess. Never seen so much filth anywhere in my life, ever. It was beyond disgusting what I saw.
    Where did you go? You do see litter, mostly along verges and drainage ditches. Take Bangkok, there used to be a lot of litter but there are big fines for even dropping a cigarette butt now. The worst aspect is plastic bags, as cans are valuable and recycled by the poor.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Milagro View Post
    Where did you go? You do see litter, mostly along verges and drainage ditches. Take Bangkok, there used to be a lot of litter but there are big fines for even dropping a cigarette butt now. The worst aspect is plastic bags, as cans are valuable and recycled by the poor.

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    Laos, Vietnam,Cambodia. Although Hue, Hoi An and most of Saigon were better. We did a Mekong delta tour . Horrendous filth .
    In Sa Pa I saw a taxi driver nonchalantly throw his styrofoam box out the window on to the street after finishing lunch .

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    Quote Originally Posted by aloysious View Post
    Laos, Vietnam,Cambodia. Although Hue, Hoi An and most of Saigon were better. We did a Mekong delta tour . Horrendous filth .
    In Sa Pa I saw a taxi driver nonchalantly throw his styrofoam box out the window on to the street after finishing lunch .
    Yes I grant you that the Mekong Delta is not very clean. I was there last year and there is a little old lady that does pho from a boat. She has been endorsed by Gordon Ramsay so she does a roaring trade now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Milagro View Post
    The reason the US is much cleaner now is because you've exported your pollution to China and India.

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    There is certainly much truth in that...

    In my example, the valley formerly known as the Santa Clara valley, aka Silicon Valley, it was mostly cars, there was little industry there & added to that the pollution blowing down from SF & Oakland......
    "There is no question former President Trump bears moral responsibility. His supporters stormed the Capitol because of the unhinged falsehoods he shouted into the world’s largest megaphone," McConnell wrote. "His behavior during and after the chaos was also unconscionable, from attacking Vice President Mike Pence during the riot to praising the criminals after it ended."



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    Quote Originally Posted by aloysious View Post
    First of all it's refreshing to see someone from the left talk about actual pollution for a change.
    Secondly, all of SE Asia that I saw was filthy. Another tourist I met who lives in China says it's the same.
    Our cleaning lady says any Asia household she cleans is disgusting and she charges more. Don't know, guess it's the culture.
    We can't force other countries to change their culture, so nothing really can be done. Just be grateful we and Western Europe are far more civilized when it comes to cleanliness.
    Say what? Have you been playing "bobbing for French Fries" again?

    Pollution and cleanliness are two completely different issues. I've seen plenty of Americans who live like pigs and I know plenty of Asians who are clean freaks to the point of it being a fetish.
    You're Never Alone With A Schizophrenic!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill View Post
    Sanitation in East Asia/SE Asia is certainly not up to American standards but I am afraid we will be moving backwards if the so called precedent starts allowing more pollution here, adding to the already growing problem.......

    When I was a kid rivers in this country could catch on fire..

    I lived about a mile from the east bay foot hills & the smog was so bad you couldn't see them.........

    We would climb them, above the smog & could see the bay bridge 50 miles away, but not my friends house 500 ft below us..
    It was those situations in the US and public outcry against pollution that lead to the bipartisan creation of the EPA and land mark pollution laws such as the Clean Air Act, the Clean Water Act and the Resource Conservation and Recovery Act that fixed the problem.

    Developing nations often have these pollution problems because public infrastructure and the legal framework has not kept up with economic development.

    In regards to air pollution in Asian cities it is mainly due to the massive numbers of small two stroke engine vehicles with horrible emissions and diesel powered vehicle.

    To anyone born after 1970 it's appalling the level of pollution you see in developing nations. For those of us born before 1970 it's not because that's how it used to be here.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill View Post
    Coal & cutting back on eviro regs can lead to that...........
    It can but it probably won't. This is a far less ideological issue than you think. Politicians of all stripes know the American public will not tolerate going back to the bad ole days.

    Most of the fights on environmental law now are fought on the fringes of regulation but not the actual law itself. It's surprising how things often turn out too.

    Surprisingly some environmental standards become stricter not because of government fiat but because one region of the world adopts a standard that is adopted around the world as a general business standard. That's what happened to arsenic standards for waste waters in the 2000's.
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