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Thread: American female chess champ refuses to wear hijab in Iran tournament

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    meh,,wear a veil then

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    Quote Originally Posted by Milagro View Post
    No not really, if they want the outside world to attend their events then they'll have to accept that their dress policies are an anathema to Western women.

    Now topless chess that's an interesting idea, maybe you could try and keep abreast of any news on that front?

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    The question was whether or not you believe this country would allow topless women to attend these tournaments.
    Once in a while you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sear View Post
    "If a woman from Europe came to America to compete in a chess tournament, but demanded to play topless, would authorities allow it?
    Europe isn't hung up on nudity the way we are. Similarly, Iran is hung up on women covering themselves. Non sequitur aside, isn't this the real question here?" A #21


    a) Thank you for this insightfully made point.

    b) I think your comparison / contrast isn't fully valid.
    The hijab isn't to cover something near universally considered indecent, an issue of MORALITY. Instead it's a demonstration of piety, an issue of RELIGION.
    In Islam, women are free to NOT wear the hijab, when at home with family.
    But would you want your mother, your sister to strut around your house topless?

    c) Therefore perhaps we ARE bound by the MORAL dictates of Rome, when in Rome.
    BUT !!
    Being coerced to comply with a RELIGIOUS expression for a religion the individual does not follow is an obvious conflict.

    If I were a Jew I wouldn't want skin-heads wearing yamikas.
    If I were a Catholic I wouldn't want Hindus wearing crucifixes.
    So why would Muslims prefer an infidel wearing a hijab in their presence?
    I see your point, but I believe for many Muslim men, the covering in public is also about reminding women that they are second class citizens. I agree 100% about people who don't belong to a religion not abiding by the 'rules' of same, but isn't the hijab a societal issue as well? Literally, or figuratively?
    Once in a while you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sear View Post
    " is wearing a hijab such an onerous thing? " a #29

    a) Perhaps not for you.

    b) Some behaviorists, philosophers, psychologists might call it hypocrisy, perhaps treachery.
    Perhaps one of the chess finalists is NOT Muslim, and wouldn't mind wearing fashionable head-wear.

    What if one of the chess finalists is Jewish? Should she allow herself to be coerced into complying with RELIGIOUS custom she does not endorse?

    And so then, is it so far wrong for those that are not Jewish to resist complying with the demand, in solidarity with with those that have objection? Complying with the demand establishes a precedent. Subsequent conscientious violation of that precedent might seem to be an even more egregious offense. That's a babe best strangled in the crib.

    "He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself." Thomas Paine
    Whenever a female American reporter goes to a Muslim country, they cover their head out of respect. I would venture to say that in some countries, it would be considered a crime for a woman to appear in public without a head covering.

    When anyone goes to shul, they must cover their head....no matter their religion. It's just taking this concept to the nth degree in Muslim countries.
    Once in a while you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right.

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    A pleasant looking young woman. Why would anyone want to not see her face?


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    Quote Originally Posted by Althea View Post
    The question was whether or not you believe this country would allow topless women to attend these tournaments.
    the naked boob gambit..a winner every time!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Milagro View Post
    Oh and you've obviously never heard of Judit Polgár, she became a Grandmaster at the age of fifteen beating the record set by Bobby Fischer. She has also defeated both Gary Kasparov and Boris Spassky. Maybe a better question might be why so many Russian and Eastern European players dominate chess, fancy answering that one?

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    Easy, they play more often.
    Leviticus 19:33 And if a stranger sojourn with thee in your land, ye shall not do him wrong. 34 The stranger that sojourneth with you shall be unto you as the homeborn among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.

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    professionals play all the time/study all the time -etc. no matter where they are from.

    Eastern Europe and Russia do emphasize chess much earleir and much more then the US -
    but agian I'm seeing a lot more interest from youth in the USA then when I was a kid.
    I started in 1959

    Back then chess was tedious -no computers,no auto-play. just books and boards

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    Quote Originally Posted by anatta View Post
    professionals play all the time/study all the time -etc. no matter where they are from.

    Eastern Europe and Russia do emphasize chess much earleir and much more then the US -
    but agian I'm seeing a lot more interest from youth in the USA then when I was a kid.
    I started in 1959

    Back then chess was tedious -no computers,no auto-play. just books and boards

    Well, dumb dumb, it surely seemed that milagro was implying that more Russian and Eastern Europeans were among the ranks of professionals. Is that not the case? Regardless, there are always some who play/practice more than others and, of course, your claim that "all professionals play all the time" can not be literally true.

    If it is true that participation in the US is increasing then we will see more from the USA soon.
    Leviticus 19:33 And if a stranger sojourn with thee in your land, ye shall not do him wrong. 34 The stranger that sojourneth with you shall be unto you as the homeborn among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.

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    "Whenever a female American reporter goes to a Muslim country, they cover their head out of respect. I would venture to say that in some countries, it would be considered a crime for a woman to appear in public without a head covering." a #34

    Understood.
    Not just reporters but everyone, including our military.
    I heard a radio interview with a U.S. military officer that was stationed in Saudi Arabia.
    Her commander gave her the orders. But she disobeyed them, on basis of U.S. military regulations, which specify what kind of head-cover must be worn with the fatigue uniform.
    There were additional issues about her driving herself. The Saudis wanted her to be chauffeured by a male.

    Too dam bad.

    If Catholics don't want to eat meat on Thursday, FINE!
    If Catholics don't want me to eat meat on Thursday, TOO BAD! I'll have the rib-eye!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Althea View Post
    I see your point, but I believe for many Muslim men, the covering in public is also about reminding women that they are second class citizens.
    Well - women are second class citizens aren't they.?? We all agree they are physically inferior to men and their fear of competing against men in chess shows they are also mentally inferior. THINK
    Reckless drivers are a bigger threat to you than all other criminals put together!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dick from the Internet View Post
    Well, dumb dumb, it surely seemed that milagro was implying that more Russian and Eastern Europeans were among the ranks of professionals. Is that not the case? Regardless, there are always some who play/practice more than others and, of course, your claim that "all professionals play all the time" can not be literally true.

    If it is true that participation in the US is increasing then we will see more from the USA soon.
    I already covered that. Eastern Europe and Russia simply value chess more.
    During the Soviet Union it was a policy to encourage the proletariate to play.

    When you get to the pro level though-chess masters are fairly evenly distributed -the US
    has quite a few now for a long time. Paul Morphy back in the 1800's and Fischer .
    But there are scads in the USA, and grandmasters all over the world..

    Certainely a lot more equal distribution then back the in the 1950 when the USSR churned out Tal, Biotvinnikik,Taimanov and so many more i've forgotten besides Spassky.
    It was the golden age of Russian chess..

    what's new in the US is not the amount of GM's -
    it's the fact women's league is becoming popular and competitive. The Polgars live in the USA now.

    China is now producing world class players

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    Quote Originally Posted by anatta View Post
    I already covered that. Eastern Europe and Russia simply value chess more.
    During the Soviet Union it was a policy to encourage the proletariate to play.

    When you get to the pro level though-chess masters are fairly evenly distributed -the US
    has quite a few now for a long time. Paul Morphy back in the 1800's and Fischer .
    But there are scads in the USA, and grandmasters all over the world..

    Certainely a lot more equal distribution then back the in the 1950 when the USSR churned out Tal, Biotvinnikik,Taimanov and so many more i've forgotten besides Spassky.
    It was the golden age of Russian chess..

    what's new in the US is not the amount of GM's -
    it's the fact women's league is becoming popular and competitive. The Polgars live in the USA now.

    China is now producing world class players
    You covered nothing. All you added was a stupid expression that is obviously not true.

    It's about participation levels , which you basically acknowledged.
    Leviticus 19:33 And if a stranger sojourn with thee in your land, ye shall not do him wrong. 34 The stranger that sojourneth with you shall be unto you as the homeborn among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Althea View Post
    The question was whether or not you believe this country would allow topless women to attend these tournaments.
    Oh sorry you were being serious!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Althea View Post
    Whenever a female American reporter goes to a Muslim country, they cover their head out of respect. I would venture to say that in some countries, it would be considered a crime for a woman to appear in public without a head covering.

    When anyone goes to shul, they must cover their head....no matter their religion. It's just taking this concept to the nth degree in Muslim countries.
    they cover their heads in their damned countries out of submission to "allah" Lucifer; according to the false prophet mohamed [ damned forever]. totalitarian Luciferianism. how about that damned #wearemuslims terrorist movement ?
    Even so, Come, Lord Jesus
    I do not participate in delusion count me out

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