Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 22

Thread: U.S. intelligence report doesn't say whether Russian hacking helped elect Donald T.

  1. #1 | Top
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Posts
    1,426
    Thanks
    565
    Thanked 317 Times in 259 Posts
    Groans
    132
    Groaned 62 Times in 61 Posts

    Default U.S. intelligence report doesn't say whether Russian hacking helped elect Donald T.

    Athough a blockbuster new U.S. intelligence report concludes that Russian President Vladimir Putin sought to help Donald Trump win the presidency, it didn’t weigh in on whether Moscow’s covert cyberhacks and other activities made a difference in Trump’s upset victory over Hillary Clinton.

    In tweet after tweet, Trump has been emphatic that it did not. Democrats just as forcefully insist the effect was clear even if they don’t blame the Russians for her loss.

    The truth is no one knows for sure because the election was so close in so many states that no one factor can be credited or blamed, especially in last year’s highly combustible campaign.

    But political experts parsed over the report, a portion of which was declassified and released Friday, for lessons they may have missed during the campaign.

    “Just because we can’t quantify it specifically doesn’t mean that it had no impact,” said John Weaver, who served as chief strategist for Gov. John Kasich (R-Ohio) in his losing bid for the Republican presidential nomination.

    “We know that it put [Clinton’s] campaign on the defensive,” Weaver said. “We know that it distracted that campaign and we know, anecdotally, that it impacted voters. Does that mean conclusively that it was by itself the difference maker? Can’t be proven.”

    Clinton’s aides are careful not to claim the aggressive Russian campaign of cyberhacking, fake news, social media posts and crude propaganda cost them votes.

    In their view, the biggest problem was that voters conflated the flood of damaging emails from Russian hacks with mounting concerns about Clinton’s use of a private email account when she headed the State Department, adding to distrust and unease about her.

    Moreover, extensive news coverage of the how the leaked emails showed political machinations by Democratic Party operatives often drowned out Clinton’s agenda, including her proposals on the economy. It was one of many hurdles she faced in reaching white working-class voters, who ultimately swung the election to Trump.

    Still, even Russian officials didn’t think Trump would win in November. Anticipating Clinton’s victory, Russian diplomats prepared to publicly question the integrity of the vote and pro-Kremlin bloggers planned a Twitter campaign for election night using the hashtag #DemocracyRIP.

    Moscow also used its state-run propaganda outlets, including the English-language news channel Russia Today, to try to hurt Clinton’s chances, according to the report.

    RT, as the network is known, posted a video on YouTube in early November, for example. Called “Trump Will Not Be Permitted to Win,” it featured Julian Assange, the fugitive founder of WikiLeaks, and was watched 2.2 million times.

    Despite Assange’s denials, the U.S. intelligence report says Russian intelligence operatives relayed through third parties thousands of pilfered emails from the Democratic National Committee and Clinton’s campaign chairman to WikiLeaks last summer and fall.

    RT repeatedly praised Assange in its stories, and its editor in chief visited him in the Ecuadorean Embassy in London in August 2013 to discuss renewing a broadcast contract, the report states. Assange has lived in the embassy since 2012 to avoid being extradited to Sweden on allegations of sexual assault.

    U.S. intelligence officials say anti-Clinton stories and posts flooded social media from the Internet Research Agency near St. Petersburg, which the report described as a network of “professional trolls” led by a Putin ally.

    Putin’s most tangible victory may have come last summer.

    On the eve of the Democratic National Convention in July, Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz (D-Fla.) was forced to quit her post as Democratic National Committee chairwoman after emails posted on Wikileaks showed that supposedly neutral DNC officials had backed Clinton over her rival, Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders, in the primaries.

    Pro-Trump Californians hope his victory can fuel a GOP revival in the Golden State »

    That incident, like other headline-grabbing stories generated by the leaked emails, gave Trump ammunition to make the case that the electoral system was rigged in Clinton’s favor. It also sapped enthusiasm for Clinton among Sanders’ fervent supporters.

    In October, Trump similarly seized on leaked emails from Clinton’s campaign chairman, John Podesta. They showed that Donna Brazile, a former CNN commentator who replaced Wasserman Schultz at the DNC, had shared a pair of questions with Clinton’s team before a televised candidates’ forum and debate.

    Like the DNC story, the leak showed nothing illegal. But it bolstered the idea that Clinton was a Washington insider who benefited from fellow elites. Other stories from leaked emails on Democratic fundraising and strategy clashes in Clinton’s inner circle also fed negative perceptions of her.

    “They all tended not to serve as one big new piece of information,” said Kevin Madden, a Republican strategist who worked for President George W. Bush and for 2012 GOP presidential nominee Mitt Romney.

    “They reinforced many of the concerns that voters already had about Clinton, which is that she was untrustworthy and that there was one set of rules for Hillary Clinton and another set of rules for everybody else,” he said.

    The most damaging leaks for Clinton may have been transcripts of excerpts of her highly paid speeches to Wall Street bankers, released in October.

    Clinton had earned hundreds of thousands of dollars from the closed-door speeches, and when she refused to release copies she faced heavy criticism from both Sanders and Trump for her Wall Street ties.

    There were no smoking guns in the leaks. But they included her admission that her growing wealth since she and Bill Clinton left the White House in 2001 had made her “kind of far removed” from the anger and frustration many Americans felt after the 2008 recession.

    She also called for "a hemispheric common market, with open trade and open borders, some time in the future, with energy that is as green and sustainable as we can get it."

    Though Clinton argued that she was talking about clean energy, Trump used the line to attack her relentlessly in waging his central attack that she was out of touch on trade and immigration.

    The speech excerpts were released on what turned out to be an unusually eventful day in the campaign, Oct. 7.

    That same Friday, the U.S. director of national intelligence and the Department of Homeland Security announced for the first time that senior Russian officials had directed cyberattacks against the 2016 election.

    The brief statement did not say Putin was trying to help Trump, as the new report claims. But it rang alarm bells in national security circles.

    In any case, it and the Clinton speeches were overshadowed by even more explosive news that day: an “Access Hollywood” hot-mic recording of Trump bragging about forcing himself on women.

    The crowded news cycle of Oct. 7 is a reminder of how hard it was for individual stories to dominate the headlines, and how difficult it remains to judge the impact of the Russian hacks.


    “Certainly the intelligence community can't gauge the impact it had on the choices the electorate made,” James R. Clapper, the Director of National Intelligence, told the Senate Armed Services Committee at a hearing Thursday.

    The Oct. 7 statement is also a reminder that Russia’s role in the leaked emails was known long before voters cast ballots, yet did not seem to help the Clinton campaign make the case that Trump was too friendly toward Putin.

    Trump even seemed to encourage Russia’s cyberoperation, taunting Clinton over emails she had deleted from her private account.

    “If they hacked, they probably have her 33,000 emails. I hope they do,” he said in July.

    Many voters believed the hacking and her use of a private server at the State Department were all part of the same story, reinforcing the perception that Clinton’s own carelessness had made her a target.

    President-elect Trump was briefed on the full classified intelligence report Friday, not just the portion released to the public. He called the briefing “constructive,” but did not acknowledge its key finding: that Putin sought to help him, and to harm Clinton, in the race.

    Instead, on Saturday, Trump took to Twitter not to blame the Russians for illegal hacking, but to blame the DNC for poor cyberdefense.

    "Only reason the hacking of the poorly defended DNC is discussed is that the loss by the Dems was so big that they are totally embarrassed!," he wrote.


    http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-n...107-story.html
    Hypocrisy =
    Quote Originally Posted by Jarod View Post
    Trump is still blaming Obama for everything.

  2. The Following User Says Thank You to Ass Man For This Post:

    OldMercsRule (01-08-2017)

  3. #2 | Top
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    life
    Posts
    52,794
    Thanks
    13,341
    Thanked 22,579 Times in 15,814 Posts
    Groans
    249
    Groaned 1,951 Times in 1,862 Posts

    Default

    Moreover, extensive news coverage of the how the leaked emails showed political machinations by Democratic Party operatives often drowned out Clinton’s agenda, including her proposals on the economy.
    what was her "proposals on the economy?" They were feeble job training and tax the rich.
    There was nothing to "drown out"

  4. #3 | Top
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    life
    Posts
    52,794
    Thanks
    13,341
    Thanked 22,579 Times in 15,814 Posts
    Groans
    249
    Groaned 1,951 Times in 1,862 Posts

    Default

    The most damaging leaks for Clinton may have been transcripts of excerpts of her highly paid speeches to Wall Street bankers, released in October.

    Clinton had earned hundreds of thousands of dollars from the closed-door speeches, and when she refused to release copies she faced heavy criticism from both Sanders and Trump for her Wall Street ties.
    aand don't forget her speech included such goodies as "Wall St.is best able to regulate itself."

  5. #4 | Top
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    4,121
    Thanks
    253
    Thanked 1,189 Times in 895 Posts
    Groans
    29
    Groaned 88 Times in 87 Posts

    Default

    U.S. intelligence report doesn't say whether Russian hacking helped elect Donald T.

    a) Well stated.

    b) What we do believe is that the Russian perpetrators favored a Trump win. AND

    c) That Trump's long trend polling chance of winning was substantially below 50%.

    Despite that, Trump "won".

    It raises some interesting questions.

  6. #5 | Top
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Posts
    26,834
    Thanks
    9,628
    Thanked 12,014 Times in 8,040 Posts
    Groans
    2,338
    Groaned 1,672 Times in 1,550 Posts

    Default

    U.S. intelligence report doesn't say whether Russian hacking helped elect Donald T.
    Oh look, another tiny little twig for slump and his suckers to hide behind and give yourselves the false impression that the rest of America and the world doesn't see the truth for what it is.

    Good4U.

  7. #6 | Top
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    62,893
    Thanks
    3,736
    Thanked 20,386 Times in 14,102 Posts
    Groans
    2
    Groaned 649 Times in 616 Posts

    Default

    Leaving aside the issue of a foreign gov't hacking into one of our political parties records, is the argument here that exposing the DNC's emails made people who would have voted for Hillary vote for Trump or did it make Bernie supporters who would have voted for Hillary not vote at all?

  8. #7 | Top
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    life
    Posts
    52,794
    Thanks
    13,341
    Thanked 22,579 Times in 15,814 Posts
    Groans
    249
    Groaned 1,951 Times in 1,862 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sear View Post
    U.S. intelligence report doesn't say whether Russian hacking helped elect Donald T.

    a) Well stated.

    b) What we do believe is that the Russian perpetrators favored a Trump win. AND

    c) That Trump's long trend polling chance of winning was substantially below 50%.

    Despite that, Trump "won".

    It raises some interesting questions.
    fair enough, but 30 percent isn't infinitesimal either..it happens 30% of the time

  9. #8 | Top
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    4,121
    Thanks
    253
    Thanked 1,189 Times in 895 Posts
    Groans
    29
    Groaned 88 Times in 87 Posts

    Default

    #5

    If it is the certitude you suggest, a "truth" to quote you; where's the evidence?

    Why is the U.S. intelligence community conspiring against us to protect Putin?

  10. #9 | Top
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    4,121
    Thanks
    253
    Thanked 1,189 Times in 895 Posts
    Groans
    29
    Groaned 88 Times in 87 Posts

    Default

    PS

    ".it happens 30% of the time " #7

    It happened 100% of the time in this case.

    That's not prima facie proof. But does confirm Trump's win was "improbable" in the most literal sense of the term.

  11. #10 | Top
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Posts
    19,400
    Thanks
    1,745
    Thanked 6,394 Times in 5,099 Posts
    Groans
    1,397
    Groaned 908 Times in 849 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default U.S. intelligence report doesn't say whether Russian hacking helped elect Donald T.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nomad View Post
    Oh look, another tiny little twig for slump and his suckers to hide behind and give yourselves the false impression that the rest of America and the world doesn't see the truth for what it is.

    Good4U.
    Just like all the other obedient Democrats, you too are at a loss when it comes to evidence or proof of what effect the hacking caused.

    You're mad ONLY because it exposed your party's corruption.

    Go crawl back under your rock.

  12. #11 | Top
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Posts
    26,834
    Thanks
    9,628
    Thanked 12,014 Times in 8,040 Posts
    Groans
    2,338
    Groaned 1,672 Times in 1,550 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Yaya View Post
    Just like all the other obedient Democrats, you too are at a loss when it comes to evidence or proof of what effect the hacking caused.

    You're mad ONLY because it exposed your party's corruption.

    Go crawl back under your rock.
    No, like all the other INTELLIGENT PEOPLE... I see how obvious it is that the Russians managed to affect the outcome of the 2016 election. But the bigger question, which all you obedient Republicans refuse to consider is... WHY DO THEY WANT TRUMP IN THE WH????

    They would not have gone through all that, knowing full well that harsh economic sanctions would likely be forthcoming, if they didn't have something to gain by it.

    What is Trump going to give them????

  13. #12 | Top
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    62,893
    Thanks
    3,736
    Thanked 20,386 Times in 14,102 Posts
    Groans
    2
    Groaned 649 Times in 616 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nomad View Post
    No, like all the other INTELLIGENT PEOPLE... I see how obvious it is that the Russians managed to affect the outcome of the 2016 election. But the bigger question, which all you obedient Republicans refuse to consider is... WHY DO THEY WANT TRUMP IN THE WH????

    They would not have gone through all that, knowing full well that harsh economic sanctions would likely be forthcoming, if they didn't have something to gain by it.

    What is Trump going to give them????
    They started the hack before Trump was the nominee. They didn't want Hillary in office (if you believe the WaPo).

  14. The Following User Says Thank You to cawacko For This Post:

    Cancel 2018.2 (01-08-2017)

  15. #13 | Top
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Posts
    40,213
    Thanks
    14,475
    Thanked 23,679 Times in 16,485 Posts
    Groans
    23
    Groaned 585 Times in 561 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nomad View Post
    No, like all the other INTELLIGENT PEOPLE... I see how obvious it is that the Russians managed to affect the outcome of the 2016 election. But the bigger question, which all you obedient Republicans refuse to consider is... WHY DO THEY WANT TRUMP IN THE WH????

    They would not have gone through all that, knowing full well that harsh economic sanctions would likely be forthcoming, if they didn't have something to gain by it.

    What is Trump going to give them????
    How? Do you personally know anyone that wanted to vote for Clinton that did not because of the leaked emails? I dont.

  16. #14 | Top
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Posts
    19,400
    Thanks
    1,745
    Thanked 6,394 Times in 5,099 Posts
    Groans
    1,397
    Groaned 908 Times in 849 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default U.S. intelligence report doesn't say whether Russian hacking helped elect Donald T.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nomad View Post
    No, like all the other INTELLIGENT PEOPLE... I see how obvious it is that the Russians managed to affect the outcome of the 2016 election. But the bigger question, which all you obedient Republicans refuse to consider is... WHY DO THEY WANT TRUMP IN THE WH????

    They would not have gone through all that, knowing full well that harsh economic sanctions would likely be forthcoming, if they didn't have something to gain by it.

    What is Trump going to give them????
    The intelligence community does not share your beliefs about the effect of hacking your CORRUPT party's email.

    Cry harder.

  17. #15 | Top
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    42,290
    Thanks
    3
    Thanked 22,272 Times in 13,987 Posts
    Groans
    0
    Groaned 3,056 Times in 2,851 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by doctordog View Post
    Athough a blockbuster new U.S. intelligence report concludes that Russian President Vladimir Putin sought to help Donald Trump win the presidency, it didn’t weigh in on whether Moscow’s covert cyberhacks and other activities made a difference in Trump’s upset victory over Hillary Clinton.

    In tweet after tweet, Trump has been emphatic that it did not. Democrats just as forcefully insist the effect was clear even if they don’t blame the Russians for her loss.

    The truth is no one knows for sure because the election was so close in so many states that no one factor can be credited or blamed, especially in last year’s highly combustible campaign.

    But political experts parsed over the report, a portion of which was declassified and released Friday, for lessons they may have missed during the campaign.

    “Just because we can’t quantify it specifically doesn’t mean that it had no impact,” said John Weaver, who served as chief strategist for Gov. John Kasich (R-Ohio) in his losing bid for the Republican presidential nomination.

    “We know that it put [Clinton’s] campaign on the defensive,” Weaver said. “We know that it distracted that campaign and we know, anecdotally, that it impacted voters. Does that mean conclusively that it was by itself the difference maker? Can’t be proven.”

    Clinton’s aides are careful not to claim the aggressive Russian campaign of cyberhacking, fake news, social media posts and crude propaganda cost them votes.

    In their view, the biggest problem was that voters conflated the flood of damaging emails from Russian hacks with mounting concerns about Clinton’s use of a private email account when she headed the State Department, adding to distrust and unease about her.

    Moreover, extensive news coverage of the how the leaked emails showed political machinations by Democratic Party operatives often drowned out Clinton’s agenda, including her proposals on the economy. It was one of many hurdles she faced in reaching white working-class voters, who ultimately swung the election to Trump.

    Still, even Russian officials didn’t think Trump would win in November. Anticipating Clinton’s victory, Russian diplomats prepared to publicly question the integrity of the vote and pro-Kremlin bloggers planned a Twitter campaign for election night using the hashtag #DemocracyRIP.

    Moscow also used its state-run propaganda outlets, including the English-language news channel Russia Today, to try to hurt Clinton’s chances, according to the report.

    RT, as the network is known, posted a video on YouTube in early November, for example. Called “Trump Will Not Be Permitted to Win,” it featured Julian Assange, the fugitive founder of WikiLeaks, and was watched 2.2 million times.

    Despite Assange’s denials, the U.S. intelligence report says Russian intelligence operatives relayed through third parties thousands of pilfered emails from the Democratic National Committee and Clinton’s campaign chairman to WikiLeaks last summer and fall.

    RT repeatedly praised Assange in its stories, and its editor in chief visited him in the Ecuadorean Embassy in London in August 2013 to discuss renewing a broadcast contract, the report states. Assange has lived in the embassy since 2012 to avoid being extradited to Sweden on allegations of sexual assault.

    U.S. intelligence officials say anti-Clinton stories and posts flooded social media from the Internet Research Agency near St. Petersburg, which the report described as a network of “professional trolls” led by a Putin ally.

    Putin’s most tangible victory may have come last summer.

    On the eve of the Democratic National Convention in July, Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz (D-Fla.) was forced to quit her post as Democratic National Committee chairwoman after emails posted on Wikileaks showed that supposedly neutral DNC officials had backed Clinton over her rival, Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders, in the primaries.

    Pro-Trump Californians hope his victory can fuel a GOP revival in the Golden State »

    That incident, like other headline-grabbing stories generated by the leaked emails, gave Trump ammunition to make the case that the electoral system was rigged in Clinton’s favor. It also sapped enthusiasm for Clinton among Sanders’ fervent supporters.

    In October, Trump similarly seized on leaked emails from Clinton’s campaign chairman, John Podesta. They showed that Donna Brazile, a former CNN commentator who replaced Wasserman Schultz at the DNC, had shared a pair of questions with Clinton’s team before a televised candidates’ forum and debate.

    Like the DNC story, the leak showed nothing illegal. But it bolstered the idea that Clinton was a Washington insider who benefited from fellow elites. Other stories from leaked emails on Democratic fundraising and strategy clashes in Clinton’s inner circle also fed negative perceptions of her.

    “They all tended not to serve as one big new piece of information,” said Kevin Madden, a Republican strategist who worked for President George W. Bush and for 2012 GOP presidential nominee Mitt Romney.

    “They reinforced many of the concerns that voters already had about Clinton, which is that she was untrustworthy and that there was one set of rules for Hillary Clinton and another set of rules for everybody else,” he said.

    The most damaging leaks for Clinton may have been transcripts of excerpts of her highly paid speeches to Wall Street bankers, released in October.

    Clinton had earned hundreds of thousands of dollars from the closed-door speeches, and when she refused to release copies she faced heavy criticism from both Sanders and Trump for her Wall Street ties.

    There were no smoking guns in the leaks. But they included her admission that her growing wealth since she and Bill Clinton left the White House in 2001 had made her “kind of far removed” from the anger and frustration many Americans felt after the 2008 recession.

    She also called for "a hemispheric common market, with open trade and open borders, some time in the future, with energy that is as green and sustainable as we can get it."

    Though Clinton argued that she was talking about clean energy, Trump used the line to attack her relentlessly in waging his central attack that she was out of touch on trade and immigration.

    The speech excerpts were released on what turned out to be an unusually eventful day in the campaign, Oct. 7.

    That same Friday, the U.S. director of national intelligence and the Department of Homeland Security announced for the first time that senior Russian officials had directed cyberattacks against the 2016 election.

    The brief statement did not say Putin was trying to help Trump, as the new report claims. But it rang alarm bells in national security circles.

    In any case, it and the Clinton speeches were overshadowed by even more explosive news that day: an “Access Hollywood” hot-mic recording of Trump bragging about forcing himself on women.

    The crowded news cycle of Oct. 7 is a reminder of how hard it was for individual stories to dominate the headlines, and how difficult it remains to judge the impact of the Russian hacks.


    “Certainly the intelligence community can't gauge the impact it had on the choices the electorate made,” James R. Clapper, the Director of National Intelligence, told the Senate Armed Services Committee at a hearing Thursday.

    The Oct. 7 statement is also a reminder that Russia’s role in the leaked emails was known long before voters cast ballots, yet did not seem to help the Clinton campaign make the case that Trump was too friendly toward Putin.

    Trump even seemed to encourage Russia’s cyberoperation, taunting Clinton over emails she had deleted from her private account.

    “If they hacked, they probably have her 33,000 emails. I hope they do,” he said in July.

    Many voters believed the hacking and her use of a private server at the State Department were all part of the same story, reinforcing the perception that Clinton’s own carelessness had made her a target.

    President-elect Trump was briefed on the full classified intelligence report Friday, not just the portion released to the public. He called the briefing “constructive,” but did not acknowledge its key finding: that Putin sought to help him, and to harm Clinton, in the race.

    Instead, on Saturday, Trump took to Twitter not to blame the Russians for illegal hacking, but to blame the DNC for poor cyberdefense.

    "Only reason the hacking of the poorly defended DNC is discussed is that the loss by the Dems was so big that they are totally embarrassed!," he wrote.


    http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-n...107-story.html
    As the intelligence personal said, they never intended to investigate if the Russian hacking had an effect, rather that it did occur, so obviously they didn't commit as to it having visible proof it aided Trump

    And asking for proof that it helped Trump get elected would be like requesting definitive proof warm weather boost the attendance of scheduled outdoor events

Similar Threads

  1. detailed look at Russian hacking
    By evince in forum Current Events Forum
    Replies: 47
    Last Post: 07-09-2017, 09:38 AM
  2. Russian Hacking...
    By Jarod in forum Current Events Forum
    Replies: 68
    Last Post: 01-06-2017, 10:12 PM
  3. CIA chief addresses ‘doubters’ of Russian hacking report
    By Nomad in forum Current Events Forum
    Replies: 106
    Last Post: 01-06-2017, 09:06 PM
  4. Russian Hacking, So What?
    By Robo in forum General Politics Forum
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 01-04-2017, 10:58 AM
  5. Clinton campaign presses for intelligence on Russian hacking
    By anatta in forum Current Events Forum
    Replies: 50
    Last Post: 12-15-2016, 03:17 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Rules

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •