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Thread: Christianity’s own ‘War on Christmas’

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    Quote Originally Posted by PostmodernProphet View Post
    beating my gums......
    Did you have a comment on Spurgeon"In 1871, famed Baptist evangelist Charles H. Spurgeon used his time in the pulpit on December 24 to exhort his flock against observing Christmas"
    "There is no question former President Trump bears moral responsibility. His supporters stormed the Capitol because of the unhinged falsehoods he shouted into the world’s largest megaphone," McConnell wrote. "His behavior during and after the chaos was also unconscionable, from attacking Vice President Mike Pence during the riot to praising the criminals after it ended."



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    Quote Originally Posted by domer76 View Post
    Walking on water and being swallowed by a great big fish. Lol.

    Take that 72 million and one bet, moron. It's a better one.
    Preach it, Father Gomer.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill View Post
    Did you have a comment on Spurgeon"In 1871, famed Baptist evangelist Charles H. Spurgeon used his time in the pulpit on December 24 to exhort his flock against observing Christmas"
    so?.....he also wrote his own Bible.....
    https://www.logos.com/product/6798/t...votional-bible
    he'd have had a real fit if he'd seen the CocaCola ads with Santa Clause......

    perhaps you didn't realize that it isn't the remembrance of Christ's birth that he was objecting to.....atheists are prone to stupid mistakes like that......

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    Fuck Christmas...
    USFREEDOM911 Expresses one of his homosexual prison rape fantasies;
    Quote Originally Posted by USFREEDOM911 View Post
    he may be getting several boners, they just won't be his.
    "You got shot in the balls and you're still walking!! Then this probably won't hurt you at all (as he unzips his pants)."




    Quote Originally Posted by USFREEDOM911 View Post
    I would kill someone who didn't pay me, after I give them a blowjob.
    Does that make me insane?

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    [QUOTE=Bill;1774559][CENTER]


    Guess who has been calling Christmas a pagan holiday for the last 500 years? Christians.

    If it feels like the “War on Christmas” is getting really old, it is. Over ten years have passed since Bill O’Reilly first opened December with a segment called, “Christmas Under Siege”—ten long years in which his cadences and refrains and echoing chorus have become as familiar to most Americans as Handel’s Messiah. More familiar, in fact.

    Not that O’Reilly invented the idea. During the 1920’s, Henry Ford’s newspaper published a series of anti-Semitic articles titled, “The International Jew: The World’s Foremost Problem.” Among the complaints:

    “Last Christmas most people had a hard time finding Christmas cards that indicated in any way that Christmas commemorated Someone’s Birth. . . . People sometimes ask why 3,000,000 Jews can control the affairs of 100,000,000 Americans. In the same way that ten Jewish students can abolish the mention of Christmas and Easter out of schools containing 3,000 Christian pupils.”

    In 1959, the far right John Birch Society warned Americans of a plot to replace Christian symbolism with United Nations symbols on Christmas ornaments. In 1966 Christian minister Gerald Smith roused Christian outrage by proclaiming that the abbreviation Xmas had been created by “world Jewry”—even though the symbol X (chi) has been used as an abbreviation for Christ since ancient times.

    Complaints about unsavory outsiders “taking the Christ out of Christmas” or forcing beleaguered believers to say “Happy Holidays!” are transparently privileged and xenophobic. They put Christian persecution complex on stark display. But here is the real irony: For almost 500 years, the folks trying to get rid of Christmas—trying to put distance between Christian worship and mid-winter solstice festivities—were Christians themselves.

    Early Christians Probably Didn’t Celebrate the Birth of Jesus


    Early worship of Jesus focused not on the nativity story but the crucifixion and resurrection.
    In fact, the Virgin Birth narrative is now considered a late addition to the gospels, one that fused ancient Sumerian mythic tropes, Hebrew tropes and cult of virginity, and the Greco-Roman belief that an extraordinary man must have an extraordinary birth. In the third century, the Church Patriarch Origin wrote a list of Christian holy days that did not include Christmas, suggesting that the holiday hadn’t yet emerged during his time.

    What did exist was a wide variety of winter solstice celebrations associated with pagan religions across the Northern Hemisphere. People whose precarious existence depended on the agricultural cycle celebrated the return of light with song and dance, feasting and festive elements that are a part of our midwinter celebrations to this day: yule logs, mulled wine, decorated trees, gift giving, and more. Long before Christianity existed, Latin peoples celebrated Saturnalia and marked December 25 as the birthday of the unconquered sun.

    Christianity Absorbs Other Religions
    Christianity spread in part by embracing a practice called “syncretism,” in which local traditions and religions were simply absorbed and reinterpreted within the Christian tradition. In 606 A.D., Pope Gregory wrote to Abbot Mellitus in Britain and outlined this approach:

    “The temples of the idols among the people should on no account be destroyed. The idols themselves are to be destroyed, but the temples themselves are to be aspersed with holy water, altars set up in them, and relics deposited there. For if these temples are well-built, they must be purified from the worship of demons and dedicated to the service of the true God. In this way, we hope that the people, seeing that their temples are not destroyed, may abandon their error and, flocking more readily to their accustomed resorts, may come to know and adore the true God.”

    Pagan temples became churches, indigenous gods became saints, and pagan festival days got repurposed as Christian holy days. The earliest existing documentation of December 25 as Christmas derives from the fourth century and is tied closely with the merger between Christianity and imperial Rome. Over time, Christmas came to rival Easter in the Catholic tradition, and the cult of Mary as the most perfect of all perfect virgins rose to rival the Trinity.

    It should come as no surprise, then, that the strongest and most vociferous backlash against Christmas came from Protestant reformers who rejected all things Roman Catholic (except, ironically, the Bible itself, which they substituted for the very hierarchy that had compiled it.)

    Calvin and Followers Reject “Pagan” “Papal” Christmas Holiday


    Protestant Reformer John Calvin saw himself as debriding the Body of Christ, excising layers of rotten flesh so as to revive the wholesome form that God himself had created. Trusting only the sacrosanct Bible and his own righteous conviction as divine authority, he scraped all the way back to the fourth century, discarding indulgences, ritual, iconography, ecclesiastical hierarchy and Catholic holidays as man-made rot.

    Calvin laid out a concept that later theologians called the regulative principle of worship, meaning that the only valid forms of worship are those laid out in the Bible. Christmas doesn’t meet this bar. In 1550, under his influence, authorities in Geneva issued an edict banning “all festivals, with the exception of Sundays, which God had ordained. ” Not surprisingly, some people were less than thrilled, and even Calvin himself seems to have worried that the edict went too far, too soon. But he never compromised on the principle.

    Scottish Presbyterians Follow Suit


    As the Reformation spread to the British Isles, the Presbyterian church took up the case against Catholic holidays. Reformer John Knox echoed Calvin’s dour condemnation of holidays, mentioning Christmas by name and calling down punishment on “obstinate maintainers and teachers of such abominations.” Another Scottish minister, David Calderwood reiterated Knox’s scathing indictment of Christmas:

    “If it had been the will of God that the several acts of Christ should have been celebrated with several solemnities, the Holy Ghost would have made known to us the day of his nativity, circumcision, presentation in the temple, baptism, transfiguration, and the like.” . . . . “This opinion of Christ’s nativity on the 25th day of December was bred at Rome.”

    England Bans Christmas Festivities


    In England the increasingly powerful Puritan movement challenged the liturgical calendar of the Anglican Church, again claiming that holidays were anti-biblical, papal, and superstitious. In 1647, the British Parliament outlawed Christmas and other holiday festivals.

    “Forasmuch as the feast of the nativity of Christ, Easter, Whitsuntide, and other festivals, commonly called holy-days, have been heretofore superstitiously used and observed; be it ordained, that the said feasts, and all other festivals, commonly called holy-days, be no longer observed as festivals; any law, statute, custom, constitution, or canon, to the contrary in anywise not withstanding.”

    America’s Pilgrims Reject Christmas

    American children are taught that the Pilgrims traveled from England in the Mayflower seeking religious freedom, but the freedom to celebrate Christmas was apparently outside the range of acceptable practice for the Plymouth Rock colony. In 1621, new arrivals had to be brought into line:

    On the day called Christmas Day, the Governor called them out to work as was used. But the most part of this new company excused themselves and said that it went against their consciences to work on that day. So the Governor told them that if they made it a matter of conscience, he would spare them till they were better informed; so he led away the rest and left them. But when they came home at noon from their work, they found them in the street at play, openly; some pitching the bar, and some at stool-ball and such like sports. So he went to them and took away their implements and told them that was against his conscience, that they should play and others work. If they made the keeping of it a matter of devotion, let them keep their houses; but there should be no gaming or reveling in the streets. Since which time nothing hath been attempted that way, at least openly.

    Two generations later, Puritan leader Increase Mather condemned Christmas again as a pagan tradition:

    “The early Christians who first observed the Nativity on December 25 did not do so thinking that Christ was born in that Month, but because the Heathens’ Saturnalia was at that time kept in Rome, and they were willing to have those Pagan Holidays metamorphosed into Christian ones.”

    Catholics Push Back
    Catholics have long resented Protestant allegations that Christmas was, from the beginning, a repurposed pagan solstice festival. To this day some insist that the tradition dates back much farther than the fourth century and even that the December 25th date is based on actual historical knowledge. Contemporary Catholic apologist Marian Horvat makes the laughable claim that we can know from the biblical record the date of the annunciation and therefore the date of Christ’s birth. Horvat concludes with a tour de force of rabbit-hole reasoning:

    “We can be certain that the first Catholic apologists and Fathers of the Church, who lived very close to the time of the Apostles, were fully aware of the dates associated with the birth of Our Lord Jesus Christ. They had all the calendar sources at hand and they would not allow any untruth to be introduced in the Catholic liturgy. The date of Christ’s birth was transmitted by them as being December 25, a Sunday.”

    American Protestants Hold the Line
    For generations, a range of Protestants found claims like these unconvincing. In the mid-19th Century, Princeton Professor of Theology Samuel Miller echoed the persistent Presbyterian position that “the observance of uncommanded holy-days is ever found to interfere with the due sanctification of the Lord’s day. Adding to the appointment of God is superstition. ”
    [B][SIZE=4]
    In 1871, famed Baptist evangelist [COLOR="#FF0000"]Charles H. Spurgeon used his time in the pulpit on December 24 to exhort his flock against observing Ch
    Last edited by Ralph; 12-10-2016 at 11:44 PM.

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    [QUOTE=Ralph;1775709]
    Quote Originally Posted by Bill View Post
    [CENTER]


    Guess who has been calling Christmas a pagan holiday for the last 500 years? Christians.

    If it feels like the “War on Christmas” is getting really old, it is. Over ten years have passed since Bill O’Reilly first opened December with a segment called, “Christmas Under Siege”—ten long years in which his cadences and refrains and echoing chorus have become as familiar to most Americans as Handel’s Messiah. More familiar, in fact.

    Not that O’Reilly invented the idea. During the 1920’s, Henry Ford’s newspaper published a series of anti-Semitic articles titled, “The International Jew: The World’s Foremost Problem.” Among the complaints:

    “Last Christmas most people had a hard time finding Christmas cards that indicated in any way that Christmas commemorated Someone’s Birth. . . . People sometimes ask why 3,000,000 Jews can control the affairs of 100,000,000 Americans. In the same way that ten Jewish students can abolish the mention of Christmas and Easter out of schools containing 3,000 Christian pupils.”

    In 1959, the far right John Birch Society warned Americans of a plot to replace Christian symbolism with United Nations symbols on Christmas ornaments. In 1966 Christian minister Gerald Smith roused Christian outrage by proclaiming that the abbreviation Xmas had been created by “world Jewry”—even though the symbol X (chi) has been used as an abbreviation for Christ since ancient times.

    Complaints about unsavory outsiders “taking the Christ out of Christmas” or forcing beleaguered believers to say “Happy Holidays!” are transparently privileged and xenophobic. They put Christian persecution complex on stark display. But here is the real irony: For almost 500 years, the folks trying to get rid of Christmas—trying to put distance between Christian worship and mid-winter solstice festivities—were Christians themselves.

    Early Christians Probably Didn’t Celebrate the Birth of Jesus


    Early worship of Jesus focused not on the nativity story but the crucifixion and resurrection.
    In fact, the Virgin Birth narrative is now considered a late addition to the gospels, one that fused ancient Sumerian mythic tropes, Hebrew tropes and cult of virginity, and the Greco-Roman belief that an extraordinary man must have an extraordinary birth. In the third century, the Church Patriarch Origin wrote a list of Christian holy days that did not include Christmas, suggesting that the holiday hadn’t yet emerged during his time.

    What did exist was a wide variety of winter solstice celebrations associated with pagan religions across the Northern Hemisphere. People whose precarious existence depended on the agricultural cycle celebrated the return of light with song and dance, feasting and festive elements that are a part of our midwinter celebrations to this day: yule logs, mulled wine, decorated trees, gift giving, and more. Long before Christianity existed, Latin peoples celebrated Saturnalia and marked December 25 as the birthday of the unconquered sun.

    Christianity Absorbs Other Religions
    Christianity spread in part by embracing a practice called “syncretism,” in which local traditions and religions were simply absorbed and reinterpreted within the Christian tradition. In 606 A.D., Pope Gregory wrote to Abbot Mellitus in Britain and outlined this approach:

    “The temples of the idols among the people should on no account be destroyed. The idols themselves are to be destroyed, but the temples themselves are to be aspersed with holy water, altars set up in them, and relics deposited there. For if these temples are well-built, they must be purified from the worship of demons and dedicated to the service of the true God. In this way, we hope that the people, seeing that their temples are not destroyed, may abandon their error and, flocking more readily to their accustomed resorts, may come to know and adore the true God.”

    Pagan temples became churches, indigenous gods became saints, and pagan festival days got repurposed as Christian holy days. The earliest existing documentation of December 25 as Christmas derives from the fourth century and is tied closely with the merger between Christianity and imperial Rome. Over time, Christmas came to rival Easter in the Catholic tradition, and the cult of Mary as the most perfect of all perfect virgins rose to rival the Trinity.

    It should come as no surprise, then, that the strongest and most vociferous backlash against Christmas came from Protestant reformers who rejected all things Roman Catholic (except, ironically, the Bible itself, which they substituted for the very hierarchy that had compiled it.)

    Calvin and Followers Reject “Pagan” “Papal” Christmas Holiday


    Protestant Reformer John Calvin saw himself as debriding the Body of Christ, excising layers of rotten flesh so as to revive the wholesome form that God himself had created. Trusting only the sacrosanct Bible and his own righteous conviction as divine authority, he scraped all the way back to the fourth century, discarding indulgences, ritual, iconography, ecclesiastical hierarchy and Catholic holidays as man-made rot.

    Calvin laid out a concept that later theologians called the regulative principle of worship, meaning that the only valid forms of worship are those laid out in the Bible. Christmas doesn’t meet this bar. In 1550, under his influence, authorities in Geneva issued an edict banning “all festivals, with the exception of Sundays, which God had ordained. ” Not surprisingly, some people were less than thrilled, and even Calvin himself seems to have worried that the edict went too far, too soon. But he never compromised on the principle.

    Scottish Presbyterians Follow Suit


    As the Reformation spread to the British Isles, the Presbyterian church took up the case against Catholic holidays. Reformer John Knox echoed Calvin’s dour condemnation of holidays, mentioning Christmas by name and calling down punishment on “obstinate maintainers and teachers of such abominations.” Another Scottish minister, David Calderwood reiterated Knox’s scathing indictment of Christmas:

    “If it had been the will of God that the several acts of Christ should have been celebrated with several solemnities, the Holy Ghost would have made known to us the day of his nativity, circumcision, presentation in the temple, baptism, transfiguration, and the like.” . . . . “This opinion of Christ’s nativity on the 25th day of December was bred at Rome.”

    England Bans Christmas Festivities


    In England the increasingly powerful Puritan movement challenged the liturgical calendar of the Anglican Church, again claiming that holidays were anti-biblical, papal, and superstitious. In 1647, the British Parliament outlawed Christmas and other holiday festivals.

    “Forasmuch as the feast of the nativity of Christ, Easter, Whitsuntide, and other festivals, commonly called holy-days, have been heretofore superstitiously used and observed; be it ordained, that the said feasts, and all other festivals, commonly called holy-days, be no longer observed as festivals; any law, statute, custom, constitution, or canon, to the contrary in anywise not withstanding.”

    America’s Pilgrims Reject Christmas

    American children are taught that the Pilgrims traveled from England in the Mayflower seeking religious freedom, but the freedom to celebrate Christmas was apparently outside the range of acceptable practice for the Plymouth Rock colony. In 1621, new arrivals had to be brought into line:

    On the day called Christmas Day, the Governor called them out to work as was used. But the most part of this new company excused themselves and said that it went against their consciences to work on that day. So the Governor told them that if they made it a matter of conscience, he would spare them till they were better informed; so he led away the rest and left them. But when they came home at noon from their work, they found them in the street at play, openly; some pitching the bar, and some at stool-ball and such like sports. So he went to them and took away their implements and told them that was against his conscience, that they should play and others work. If they made the keeping of it a matter of devotion, let them keep their houses; but there should be no gaming or reveling in the streets. Since which time nothing hath been attempted that way, at least openly.

    Two generations later, Puritan leader Increase Mather condemned Christmas again as a pagan tradition:

    “The early Christians who first observed the Nativity on December 25 did not do so thinking that Christ was born in that Month, but because the Heathens’ Saturnalia was at that time kept in Rome, and they were willing to have those Pagan Holidays metamorphosed into Christian ones.”

    Catholics Push Back
    Catholics have long resented Protestant allegations that Christmas was, from the beginning, a repurposed pagan solstice festival. To this day some insist that the tradition dates back much farther than the fourth century and even that the December 25th date is based on actual historical knowledge. Contemporary Catholic apologist Marian Horvat makes the laughable claim that we can know from the biblical record the date of the annunciation and therefore the date of Christ’s birth. Horvat concludes with a tour de force of rabbit-hole reasoning:

    “We can be certain that the first Catholic apologists and Fathers of the Church, who lived very close to the time of the Apostles, were fully aware of the dates associated with the birth of Our Lord Jesus Christ. They had all the calendar sources at hand and they would not allow any untruth to be introduced in the Catholic liturgy. The date of Christ’s birth was transmitted by them as being December 25, a Sunday.”

    American Protestants Hold the Line
    For generations, a range of Protestants found claims like these unconvincing. In the mid-19th Century, Princeton Professor of Theology Samuel Miller echoed the persistent Presbyterian position that “the observance of uncommanded holy-days is ever found to interfere with the due sanctification of the Lord’s day. Adding to the appointment of God is superstition. ”
    [B][SIZE=4]
    In 1871, famed Baptist evangelist [COLOR="#FF0000"]Charles H. Spurgeon used his time in the pulpit on December 24 to exhort his flock against observing Ch
    "So let no man judge you in food or drink, or regarding a festival or new moon, which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ." -- Col. 2:16-17 It seems that your post is somewhat JUDGMENTAL and CONDESCENDING...no? Now who is the real bigot?

    The false premise attempted to be established in the prior bigoted post? It's the Christians that are attacking the Traditional American Holiday of Christmas.....in recent years not the godless atheists. Regardless of the doctrine found in Scripture where there is no command to observe Christmas, (the unknown birthdate of the Christ).....the tradition is still valid as a protected right guaranteed by the "free exercise clause", as the majority of the US citizens accept this tradition as being "religious" in nature.

    The funny thing you quote a practice declaring that Christians are responsible for attacking this tradition of Christmas for over 500 years. Yet with this tradition being under a supposed constant attack by Christians themselves.....Christmas as a tradition is older in this nation than the declaration of Independence itself. How can something be under attack and accepted by the majority as a tradition at the same time in a free society?

    Conclusion: your contradiction is only off by about 250 years this time around. The real issue? Simply because there might arise a difference in ideological philosophy between certain elements of society.....only bigots attack others because of their personal philosophical ideologies.

    A good example of just how civil and understanding the FREE THINKERS are on the left here in this nation simply look at how well they have accepted the defeat in the General Election...they have shown unlimited respect to their noble opposition.


    They are sure to receive great gifts under the old xmast tree this year...given by the jolly fat elf. Or are they....perhaps they might receive a good old fashioned lashing across the back and lump of coal delivered by the red elfs evil brother, KRAMPUS.

    MERRY CHRISTMAST
    Last edited by Ralph; 12-11-2016 at 09:05 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph View Post

    "So let no man judge you in food or drink, or regarding a festival or new moon, which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ." -- Col. 2:16-17 It seems that your post is somewhat JUDGMENTAL and CONDESCENDING...no? Now who is the real bigot?

    MERRY CHRISTMAST
    I didn't write it...

    Are you referring to Calvin, Knox, Miller or Spurgeon??

    Last edited by Bill; 12-11-2016 at 03:13 PM.
    "There is no question former President Trump bears moral responsibility. His supporters stormed the Capitol because of the unhinged falsehoods he shouted into the world’s largest megaphone," McConnell wrote. "His behavior during and after the chaos was also unconscionable, from attacking Vice President Mike Pence during the riot to praising the criminals after it ended."



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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill View Post

    Atheist sacrament.....

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    Much ado about nothing on both sides of this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by leaningright View Post
    Much ado about nothing on both sides of this.
    didn't start it.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill View Post
    I didn't write it...

    Are you referring to Calvin, Knox, Miller or Spurgeon??

    No...I am referring to your "parroted pastie".

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    Quote Originally Posted by PostmodernProphet View Post
    didn't start it.....
    Yep, I get it.

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    Not ppl like you, Christians.........
    "There is no question former President Trump bears moral responsibility. His supporters stormed the Capitol because of the unhinged falsehoods he shouted into the world’s largest megaphone," McConnell wrote. "His behavior during and after the chaos was also unconscionable, from attacking Vice President Mike Pence during the riot to praising the criminals after it ended."



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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill View Post
    Not ppl like you, Christians.........
    tsk, tsk.....the atheist has become the purveyor of true Christendom......

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