Trump's Poor People

[midcan5]

Without getting into complicated reasons why I think the issues today are problems caused by Americans themselves on themselves. Read link below, the comments are so many I have not read them yet.

Tell us what you think.

http://www.stirjournal.com/2016/04/0...p-trump-trump/

PS I will comment on my whys when time permits.

"There is no need to sally forth, for it remains true that those things which make us human are, curiously enough, always close at hand. Resolve, then, that on this very ground, with small flags waving and tiny blasts of tiny trumpets, we shall meet the enemy, and not only may he be ours, he may be us." Pogo

[midcan5]

What no comments? Not even from Crooked ILLary? Weird, come on right wingers and conservative republicans, comments? Thoughts? Or is it too complex for a slogan driven election? Over their head maybe?

[midcan5]

No counterpoints? Interesting. For the reader, see two books that cover class and white poverty in America. White welfare exceeds minority welfare statistics in numbers and in percentage of whites using welfare. Ever wonder why? Could it be they are willing accomplices in their own poverty?

'White Trash: The 400-Year Untold History of Class in America' by Nancy Isenberg
'Hillbilly Elegy: A Memoir of a Family and Culture in Crisis' by J. D. Vance

"From the time of slavery (yes, slavery) to the rise of Donald Trump, wealthy elites have relied on the allegiance of the white underclass to retain their affluence and political power. To understand this dynamic, to see through the eyes of poor and working class whites as they chant, “Trump, Trump, Trump,” let’s look back at a few unsavory slices of America’s capitalist pie." http://www.stirjournal.com/2016/04/0...p-trump-trump/

[midcan5]

Since no conservative can counter the premise of this thread and since they still follow their leader like small children in a strange place I thought I'd add some reading material for the interested browser. If you want to understand how we got here, the first three will help. The last is less serious but still relevant.

'The Rhetoric of Reaction: Perversity, Futility, Jeopardy' Albert O. Hirschman
'Invisible Hands: The Businessmen's Crusade Against the New Deal' Kim Phillips-Fein
'White Trash: The 400-Year Untold History of Class in America' by Nancy Isenberg
Idiot America: How Stupidity Became a Virtue in the Land of the Free' by Charles P. Pierce

"Liberals and progressives have been slow to realize that their preferred vocabulary has been hijacked and that when they respond to once - hallowed phrases they are responding to a ghost now animated by a new machine, The point is not a small one, for in any debate, especially one fought in the arena of public opinion, the battle is won not by knock - down arguments but by the party that succeeds in placing its own spin on the terms presiding over the discussion. That's what the conservatives in and out of Congress have managed to do with old war horses like "individual" and so long as they are allowed to get away with it, the opposition will spend its time insisting that it too is for the individual or for color-blindness or equal opportunity - and before we know it all the plovers will be dead and all the subcontractors will once again be white." Stanley Fish, 'The Trouble with Principle' (How the Right Hijacked the Magic Words)

[cawacko]

Long article. I read much of it but definitely not all. I've read this story/history before. The basic premise being poor(er) and lower educated people should unite and vote together regardless of race. I see your preference is more a Bernie Sanders style of redistribution.

[midcan5]

Long article. I read much of it but definitely not all. I've read this story/history before. The basic premise being poor(er) and lower educated people should unite and vote together regardless of race. I see your preference is more a Bernie Sanders style of redistribution.

Yes, the article was very long and the replies even longer I think. I don't see economics as redistribution although given the changes in our material existence and an aging population around the world some economists do now support a living stipend. I am currently reading 'White Trash' which contradicts the glorious past we all were brought up to believe. Not sure of the ending though. lol

And yes, people lower down on the ladder should vote for representatives that support them, seems kinda simple but single issues often muddy the water.

"A final word on politics. As in economics nothing is certain save the certainty that there will be firm prediction by those who do not know. It is possible that in some election, near or far, a presidential candidate will emerge in the United States determined to draw into the campaign those not now impelled to vote. Conceivably those so attracted - those who are not threatened by higher taxes and who are encouraged by the vision of a new governing community committed to the rescue of the cities and the impacted underclass - could outnumber those lost because of the resulting invasion of contentment. If this happens the effort would succeed." John Kenneth Galbraith 'The Culture of Contentment'

[canceled.2021.2]

Yes, the article was very long and the replies even longer I think. I don't see economics as redistribution although given the changes in our material existence and an aging population around the world some economists do now support a living stipend. I am currently reading 'White Trash' which contradicts the glorious past we all were brought up to believe. Not sure of the ending though. lol

And yes, people lower down on the ladder should vote for representatives that support them, seems kinda simple but single issues often muddy the water.

"A final word on politics. As in economics nothing is certain save the certainty that there will be firm prediction by those who do not know. It is possible that in some election, near or far, a presidential candidate will emerge in the United States determined to draw into the campaign those not now impelled to vote. Conceivably those so attracted - those who are not threatened by higher taxes and who are encouraged by the vision of a new governing community committed to the rescue of the cities and the impacted underclass - could outnumber those lost because of the resulting invasion of contentment. If this happens the effort would succeed." John Kenneth Galbraith 'The Culture of Contentment'

The article was a lot words signifying things I have heard leftists spout for years. Nothing new. The premise of the article is that people just aren't smart enough to know what is good for them. Ultimately this is at the heart of all leftist ideology. Only THEY are smart enough. ONLY they know the right things to do. And if you should disagree with them you are guilty of racism or sexism or any other ism you can think of.

[midcan5]

The article was a lot words signifying things I have heard leftists spout for years. Nothing new. The premise of the article is that people just aren't smart enough to know what is good for them. Ultimately this is at the heart of all leftist ideology. Only THEY are smart enough. ONLY they know the right things to do. And if you should disagree with them you are guilty of racism or sexism or any other ism you can think of.

You obviously missed the point and filled in a right wing talking point. This isn't the left spouting anything, it is the reason Trump appeals to so many on the borders of our class society. One could easily say this is the stuff the conservative elites have been saying. The interesting point for me is Americans like you are obsessed with these false flags. You see in them a division that is false. Only Americans can solve the issues, and so long as they are controlled by false narratives they'll continue to point to the other as the fault. You forget Trump destroyed your own party, did you miss that too? Conservative elites lost, forget that already?

"People want to be heard. They want to believe their voices matter. A January 2016 survey by the Rand Corporation reported that Republican primary voters are 86.5 percent more likely to favor Donald Trump if they “somewhat agree” or “strongly agree” with the statement, “People like me don’t have any say about what the government does.”

What is it about a flamboyant millionaire that appeals to poor white conservatives? Why do they believe a Trump presidency would amplify their voices? The answer may lie in America’s historical relationship between the wealthiest class and the army of poor whites who have loyally supported them." Jonna Ivin http://www.stirjournal.com/2016/04/0...p-trump-trump/

[canceled.2021.2]

You obviously missed the point and filled in a right wing talking point. This isn't the left spouting anything, it is the reason Trump appeals to so many on the borders of our class society. One could easily say this is the stuff the conservative elites have been saying. The interesting point for me is Americans like you are obsessed with these false flags. You see in them a division that is false. Only Americans can solve the issues, and so long as they are controlled by false narratives they'll continue to point to the other as the fault. You forget Trump destroyed your own party, did you miss that too? Conservative elites lost, forget that already?

"People want to be heard. They want to believe their voices matter. A January 2016 survey by the Rand Corporation reported that Republican primary voters are 86.5 percent more likely to favor Donald Trump if they “somewhat agree” or “strongly agree” with the statement, “People like me don’t have any say about what the government does.”

What is it about a flamboyant millionaire that appeals to poor white conservatives? Why do they believe a Trump presidency would amplify their voices? The answer may lie in America’s historical relationship between the wealthiest class and the army of poor whites who have loyally supported them." Jonna Ivin http://www.stirjournal.com/2016/04/0...p-trump-trump/

I am glad that the GOP as currently constructed is being decimated. I have hoped for that since 2004 once I realized that they no longer represented the interests they claim to represent.

That Trump is a billionaire is of little interest to me. This is about money in and of itself. This is about the "elites" and how they try to wield power. Being an "elite" in America has nothing to do with money. It has everything to do with going to the "right" schools, saying the "right" things etc. Trump doesn't fit that mold.

Any of the GOP contenders could have taken that mantle in the primary. They didn't. The closest was Ted Cruz, but the GOP establishment at the time said they hated him more than they hated Trump so they took him out. So when people say that this is of the GOPs choosing, they are correct. They have shown their hand for all to see. They have more to lose by a Trump win than a Hillary loss. The Bill Kristols of the world will be neutered which will please me. I think we have had enough neocons don't you?

[midcan5]

I am glad that the GOP as currently constructed is being decimated. I have hoped for that since 2004 once I realized that they no longer represented the interests they claim to represent.

That Trump is a billionaire is of little interest to me. This is about money in and of itself. This is about the "elites" and how they try to wield power. Being an "elite" in America has nothing to do with money. It has everything to do with going to the "right" schools, saying the "right" things etc. Trump doesn't fit that mold.

Any of the GOP contenders could have taken that mantle in the primary. They didn't. The closest was Ted Cruz, but the GOP establishment at the time said they hated him more than they hated Trump so they took him out. So when people say that this is of the GOPs choosing, they are correct. They have shown their hand for all to see. They have more to lose by a Trump win than a Hillary loss. The Bill Kristols of the world will be neutered which will please me. I think we have had enough neocons don't you?

Interesting reply, what interests did they represent before now? Seems to me they still represent business elites and religious fundamentalism, an odd mix but one that worked. Still works as states and congress demonstrate. Trump went to Penn, that is about as elite as it gets. I know several Penn grads, big time lawyers etc.

I do agree a Trump win could change the GOP but in what direction remains to be seen. I even agree with his positions on trade and jobs, but congress will still be run by the likes of Paul Ryan and they will stop anything they disagree with as they did with Obama once they got control of the congress. And yes the neocons screwed up. Only a few days left. We shall see.

Another POV

"In the immediate aftermath of the Access Hollywood disclosure, there has been fevered talk of forcing Trump to quit the race, if only to save the GOP from electoral disaster in the House and Senate. Democrats need to oppose this possibility loudly and often. Not one of the things that Trump said about or admitted doing to women is new. The confession (to crimes) does not constitute legitimate grounds for those who have remained loyal to him to date to change their minds. Opposition to his candidacy should have been a moral and political imperative from the get-go regardless of party (or ideological) affiliation. It was not such an imperative for one simple but terrible reason: Trump is a creation of conservative republicans and the political culture they have been fostering for decades. And they know it." http://contemporarycondition.blogspo...al-crisis.html

[midcan5]

Teflon Don..."They have more to lose by a Trump win than a Hillary loss. The Bill Kristols of the world will be neutered which will please me. I think we have had enough neocons don't you?"

Has your opinion changed? Are they neutered? Check the American Conservative site.

http://www.theamericanconservative.c...iliates-trump/

[midcan5]

In reviewing this thread I have to wonder if the republicans like the democrats do not understand the Trump voter or the Trump appeal? His rallies are reminiscent of fascist rallies of the last century, they contain many of the same elements. But the base who cheer Trump obviously didn't elect him on their own. The numbers are not that high. Trump gained most of the Romney voters who must have thought sanity would prevail or they didn't really care. Hillary hatred has an effect too. Are Americans whites so insecure any political voice who promises an imaginary past will do?

Make America white again.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/05/o...ve-action.html

[PostmodernProphet]

why I think the issues today are problems caused by Americans themselves on themselves

its not that complicated......there's the election of 2008 and the election of 2012.....

[midcan5]

its not that complicated......there's the election of 2008 and the election of 2012.....

And we are still experiencing the positive economic effect of those elections and millions upon millions of Americans have healthcare and are fighting to keep it. But hate has grown with Trump's election as the Mosque bombing shows and it is this hate, this resentment of the other that is the troubling part of America today. And anyone who denies this hatred please Google before replying.

[PostmodernProphet]

And we are still experiencing the positive economic effect of those elections

ten trillion dollars in debt is NOT a positive economic effect.....millions of people can no longer afford health insurance because of what Obama did......hate has grown with Trump's election as liberal postings show......google it and admit it.......