Fascism- Stop Saying It, Stupid

[Blackwater Lunchbreak]

Did you miss out on the Colonial era slave trade?

Great Britain was at one point virtually a puppet for the interests of the East India Trading Company. I think it's safe to say that it is not unprecedented for business interests to shape the policies and decisions of government.

So history is full of atrocities. That doesn't justify them.

I'd say that was a very fascist, mercantilist era.

[Epicurus]

Is a fascist state socially authoritarian? Theocratic? Nationalistic?

Are its economic policies Keynesian? Chicagoan? Austrian? Marxist?

[Blackwater Lunchbreak]

Is a fascist state socially authoritarian? Theocratic? Nationalistic?

Are its economic policies Keynesian? Chicagoan? Austrian? Marxist?

most likely. maybe or maybe not. maybe or maybe not.


maybe, maybe, maybe

[Blackwater Lunchbreak]

forgot one. maybe.

[Blackwater Lunchbreak]

If you believe your nation should take over the world is that nationalism or internationalism?

[Epicurus]

most likely. maybe or maybe not. maybe or maybe not.


maybe, maybe, maybe

I'm hoping by now you've caught my not-so-subtle drift in these questions. You're having trouble pinpointing precisely what social and economic policies a fascist government might pursue.

Like I said in my earlier post, people take the lesson they want to learn from studying the failure of fascism. You are unable to tell me if a fascist government is inherently nationalistic, collectivist, or individualistic.

You are quick to roll out your own definition of fascism as an insult in debates, but your hesitance in describing exactly what a fascist might stand for speaks volumes about your overall ignorance of the term's historical significance.

To you, fascism is something that other people do. You would never consider your own, sacred belief system to share any similarities with fascism. In truth, I would suggest looking in a mirror to see that you already share a great deal with the fascist governments of the 20th century.

Rampant, xenophobic nationalism, anti-Semitism, and a fear of foreign cultures and religions are all tendencies you share with fascist governments.

[Epicurus]

If you believe your nation should take over the world is that nationalism or internationalism?

I would say nationalism; provided it is based on the premise that if your nation has the ability to conquer the world, it also has the right to do so.

While I do not share your somewhat paranoid attitudes about the United Nations and world politics, I too am troubled by a growing percentage of the population who consider themselves world citizens first and Americans second.

I have no problem saying that the first responsiblity of the American government should be to provide first for Americans. The American government does and should place a greater importance on the life and wellbeing of an American then a foreigner.

If that is nationalism then so be it.

[Blackwater Lunchbreak]

I'm hoping by now you've caught my not-so-subtle drift in these questions. You're having trouble pinpointing precisely what social and economic policies a fascist government might pursue.

If you had understood the not so suble answers, you would see the answer is "it varies greatly", or "those axes are not really the where the definition of fascism lives".

Like I said in my earlier post, people take the lesson they want to learn from studying the failure of fascism. You are unable to tell me if a fascist government is inherently nationalistic, collectivist, or individualistic.

They may or may not be nationalist. They are usually collectivist and rarely individualistic.

You are quick to roll out your own definition of fascism as an insult in debates, but your hesitance in describing exactly what a fascist might stand for speaks volumes about your overall ignorance of the term's historical significance.

Im quick to roll out because it's not complex. ANd I only use where I believe it applies.

Historically it was invented to somehow differentiate modern tyranny from old world tyranny in a dishonest fashion. I believe to portray european modern totalitarian as somehow worse than semitic theocratic totalitarianism.

To you, fascism is something that other people do. You would never consider your own, sacred belief system to share any similarities with fascism. In truth, I would suggest looking in a mirror to see that you already share a great deal with the fascist governments of the 20th century.

I am not a fascist. I believe our nation is. I believe corporations payoff legistlators to control policy in their interests. Our country is defacto fascist. Though they allow us a decent lifestyle as they reduce our freedoms. We are asleep at the wheel. They will reduce our freedoms then dump our standard of living, and we will be powerless to stop it, and the brianwashed fascistocrasts of both parties will feel most people deserve starvation, the neocons will say americans are lazy, the "progressives" will say wanting to live is "nationalistic". So there ya go.

Rampant, xenophobic nationalism, anti-Semitism, and a fear of foreign cultures and religions are all tendencies you share with fascist governments.

Blah blah blah. blow it out your cornhole.

[Blackwater Lunchbreak]

Man. Im such a fucking badass.

[Blackwater Lunchbreak]

I have no problem saying that the first responsiblity of the American government should be to provide first for Americans. The American government does and should place a greater importance on the life and wellbeing of an American then a foreigner.

If that is nationalism then so be it.

Warren for president!

[Damocles]

Islamofascist is a retarded term. It is merely way for the war mongers to present it s a global threat, by likening it to a power structure most people are familiar with. Its like calling them IslamoCommunists, which would be equally as stupid.

Fascism is what it is, an extreme form of statism. And the radical factions of Islam are certainly not statists. Well, except for Asshat.

Wouldn't "IslamoCommunism" be the same as saying Ba'athist?

[Blackwater Lunchbreak]

They are statists. When you want islam to BE the state, that's statism, a theocratic statism.

[gonzojournals]

Mussolini made up fascism as he went along. It changed several years before he was deposed and would likely have changed again if he had stayed in power.

To Mussolini, fascism meant he would pursue whatever policies he felt like at the time, and the Italian people would follow him loyally.

Like Hitler did in Germany, Mussolini was grasping for a romanticized revision of national history. It was largely fictitious and designed to stimulate Italian nationalism.

Reading Mussolini's own writings reveal a conflicted and contradictory personality.

Well, Mussolini's "Doctrine of Fascism" speech (from 1935) is the only text of his that completely outlines his view of Fascism, and that is the text that I am following when I refer to Mussolini's Fascism.

The difference between Mussolini and Hitler as far as nationalism goes is that Hitler had this grandiose vision of the German people with the fictitious mythology that you have referred to, whereas Mussolini's nationalism was a brilliant political tool that predated Hitler's rise to power by more than a decade.

Mussolini's Fascism was used to construct the principle of the State as an almost divine entity that renders politics completely obsolete, and for good reason. Because Mussolini was able to speak both to the public's fear of the very real possibility of Socialist control in Italy and at the same time inform them that politics were simply the wrong means to the correct end, he was able to severely weaken his political opponents simply by, as I said, making politics completely obsolete.

This viewpoint that the State was the only entity that mattered and that the contributions of the individual and the people as a whole only matter insofar as they benefit the State made Mussolini able to unite the often-fragmented Italian political sphere (which remains much the same to this day) behind him by eliminating ideological differences.

Mussolini's use of this nationalist tool is probably one of the main reasons that Fascism is still common in Italy today (and led by his granddaughter), whereas the philosophies of Hitler have had more difficulty in Germany after the war.

Another, perhaps unintended, consequence of Mussolini's Fascism was that he had to pander to conservative religious values in order to make the people feel that Socialism would damage their way of life, and so established Vatican City and the Catholic Church as the Italian state religion.

Because of this the Catholic Church was able to survive into the modern age, whereas if the Socialists had been able to seize control in Italy the historical struggle between the State of Italy and the Catholic Church would probably never have been resolved, and Socialist Italy would have driven out the Church itself, resulting in the weakening or complete destruction of the Catholic Church as a major religious power.

[FUCK THE POLICE]

I am sick of people using the word "fascism" simply because it sounds bad to be accused of....if you can't think of an actual argument against someone/thing/government, just shut the fuck up.

This goes for both sides of politics--- the left uses fascist far too much against the right, and the right uses fascist far too much against Muslims.

I'm sick of you being an idiot.

[gonzojournals]

I'm sick of you being an idiot.

Congratulations on ignoring the entire thread and displaying your immaturity without even having to type a second sentence.