View Poll Results: Should innocent Americans be imprisoned for refusing a national ID card?

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Thread: Should Americans be sent to prison for refusing to accept a form of National ID card?

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    Default Should Americans be sent to prison for refusing to accept a form of National ID card?

    Oh, alright, I'll change it.

    My biased question is in response to US's desire for a national identity card.
    Last edited by FUCK THE POLICE; 09-01-2007 at 07:01 PM.
    "Do not think that I came to bring peace... I did not come to bring peace, but a sword." - Matthew 10:34

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    YOU LIE LIKE A DOG. Prove I said that.

    explanation.
    WM had damo change the post/poll.
    e had asked something to the effect of why I thought people should go to prison for nto carrying a national ID card or somesuch.

    and btw WM dogs lie very well.
    Just crinkle a celophane bag around one and they will lie and say they are starving to death.
    Last edited by uscitizen; 09-02-2007 at 08:09 AM.
    Bush doubled the debt from 5 trillion to 10 trillion.
    Proving tax cuts work!

    Bush asked for and signed for the TARP money.
    The Republican senate leader backed Bush on this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by uscitizen View Post
    YOU LIE LIKE A DOG. Prove I said that.
    What does having a national ID card imply, US?

    Should we allow people to refuse to wear one?
    "Do not think that I came to bring peace... I did not come to bring peace, but a sword." - Matthew 10:34

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    DOGS DON'T LIE! THEY DON'T HAVE MOUTHS!

    HEHE...

    US, why do you take everything I say so seriously?

    The above is obviously a strawman. I was just trying to get you to realize what such a plan would imply.

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    Your paranoid implication.
    I think they should be used in a positive ID required situation.
    Getting a credit card, banking business, etc
    Bush doubled the debt from 5 trillion to 10 trillion.
    Proving tax cuts work!

    Bush asked for and signed for the TARP money.
    The Republican senate leader backed Bush on this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by uscitizen View Post
    Your paranoid implication.
    I think they should be used in a positive ID required situation.
    Getting a credit card, banking business, etc
    Use your social security number.
    "Do not think that I came to bring peace... I did not come to bring peace, but a sword." - Matthew 10:34

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    It's what we do now. If they need a photo show them your drivers license.

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    I'll let Governor Schweitzer speak for me:


    HELENA - Gov. Brian Schweitzer (D-Montana) signed a law Tuesday rejecting national driver's licenses for Montanans, saying the message to the federal government was "no, nope, no way, hell no."

    "We also don't think that bureaucrats in Washington D.C. ought to tell us that if we're going to get on a plane we have to carry their card, so when it's scanned through they know where you went, when you got there and when you came home," Schweitzer said.

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    National identification systems are rather notorious for becoming subject to a lot of scope and functionality creep over the years. As the ID cards become more accepted they become used for just about everything.

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    Message to Montana's governor, unless we do something to change it the National ID program begins in May 2008 starting with the Real ID program that Federalizes requirements for such identification and begins implementing a national system to identify all people that the state would have to put you into when you get your ID>
    Excellence is an art won by training and habituation. We do not act rightly because we have virtue or excellence, but rather we have those because we have acted rightly. We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit.
    - -- Aristotle

    Believe nothing on the faith of traditions, even though they have been held in honor for many generations and in diverse places. Do not believe a thing because many people speak of it. Do not believe on the faith of the sages of the past. Do not believe what you yourself have imagined, persuading yourself that a God inspires you. Believe nothing on the sole authority of your masters and priests. After examination, believe what you yourself have tested and found to be reasonable, and conform your conduct thereto.
    - -- The Buddha

    It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
    - -- Aristotle

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    Quote Originally Posted by Damocles View Post
    Message to Montana's governor, unless we do something to change it the National ID program begins in May 2008 starting with the Real ID program that Federalizes requirements for such identification and begins implementing a national system to identify all people that the state would have to put you into when you get your ID>

    Its an intrusion into our privacy, its an unfunded mandate on the states, and it subject citizens to unwarranted surveillance and possible identity theft.

    Several states have already passed laws saying they refuse to comply or implement it.

    During a congressional hearing on Tuesday, Sen. Patrick Leahy (D-Vt.) savaged the Real ID Act as an unwarranted intrusion into Americans' personal lives that a Republican-controlled Senate enacted two years ago without a single hearing or debate.

    "Americans deeply value their privacy," said Leahy, who heads the influential Senate Judiciary committee. "Americans have traditionally recognized the danger of an overreaching government." He said Real ID will "effectively create a national ID card."

    Leahy's hearing coincided with the last day to file comments with the Department of Homeland Security on its draft Real ID regulations, which were released on March 1. They drew immediate criticism for, among other things, requiring that drivers' home address and personal information be included in a two-dimensional barcode without encryption.

    That means bars and banks and other businesses would face no technical obstacles when skimming and retaining those data. There is "nothing limiting the use of the Real ID card for this type of purpose," said Sen. Russ Feingold, a Wisconsin Democrat. Also, Homeland Security has not ruled out the use of mandatory radio frequency identification tags in the cards, which raises additional privacy concerns.

    http://news.com.com/Congress+rethink...3-6182210.html


    Gov signs law rejecting Real ID act
    By The Associated Press

    HELENA - Gov. Brian Schweitzer (D-Montana) signed a law Tuesday rejecting national driver's licenses for Montanans, saying the message to the federal government was "no, nope, no way, hell no."

    The bill the governor signed rejected implementing the Real ID act in Montana, a federal law that sets a national standard for driver's licenses and requires states to link their record-keeping systems to national databases.

    Montana joined two other states, Idaho and Arkansas, in enacting laws that outright refuse to comply with the federal law, according to National Conference on State Legislatures. Washington's legislature has also passed a similar bill and Maine and Hawaii have passed resolutions opposing the Real ID act.


    http://www.billingsgazette.net/artic...ate/28-law.txt

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
    Its an intrusion into our privacy, its an unfunded mandate on the states, and it subject citizens to unwarranted surveillance and possible identity theft.

    Several states have already passed laws saying they refuse to comply or implement it.
    I agree, however without serious action this will be implemented. This President has shown no interest in listening to the concerns of the citizens about the border, including the trucks that will begin crossing on Thursday. Why would he suddenly listen to the outrage about IDs?

    I personally plan on totally avoiding it.
    Excellence is an art won by training and habituation. We do not act rightly because we have virtue or excellence, but rather we have those because we have acted rightly. We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit.
    - -- Aristotle

    Believe nothing on the faith of traditions, even though they have been held in honor for many generations and in diverse places. Do not believe a thing because many people speak of it. Do not believe on the faith of the sages of the past. Do not believe what you yourself have imagined, persuading yourself that a God inspires you. Believe nothing on the sole authority of your masters and priests. After examination, believe what you yourself have tested and found to be reasonable, and conform your conduct thereto.
    - -- The Buddha

    It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
    - -- Aristotle

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    OMGZ TRUCKS CROSSING THE BORDER IT'S A DISASTER OMGZ

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    Quote Originally Posted by Watermark View Post
    OMGZ TRUCKS CROSSING THE BORDER IT'S A DISASTER OMGZ
    Ask a truck driver whether it might hurt him. Also ask why there is not equal access to our trucks there. Free trade means that there would be equal, not only to benefit one side. Don't be obtuse in all things just because they might be about something that comes from Mexico.
    Excellence is an art won by training and habituation. We do not act rightly because we have virtue or excellence, but rather we have those because we have acted rightly. We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit.
    - -- Aristotle

    Believe nothing on the faith of traditions, even though they have been held in honor for many generations and in diverse places. Do not believe a thing because many people speak of it. Do not believe on the faith of the sages of the past. Do not believe what you yourself have imagined, persuading yourself that a God inspires you. Believe nothing on the sole authority of your masters and priests. After examination, believe what you yourself have tested and found to be reasonable, and conform your conduct thereto.
    - -- The Buddha

    It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
    - -- Aristotle

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    Quote Originally Posted by Damocles View Post
    Ask a truck driver whether it might hurt him. Also ask why there is not equal access to our trucks there. Free trade means that there would be equal, not only to benefit one side. Don't be obtuse in all things just because they might be about something that comes from Mexico.

    this trucking thing is pretty fascinating, and shows everything that is wrong with nafta.

    I just read a Houston Chronicle article that suggests neither mexican nor american truckers were really interested in this bullshit. The only one who really benefits are the transnational corporations, who ship their own crap (e.g., a Walmart in Houston shipping to a Walmart in Hidalgo). Small american and american trucking companies aren't too excited about it. Independent american truckers can't make money trucking into mexico, and apparently small mexican trucker can't really make money either, on a round trip into the United States.

    Its all about catering to the multi-national corporations.

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