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Thread: Marx, Engels and Communism

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    Default Marx, Engels and Communism

    I'm not a communist, and don't pretend to be, but this is still necessary. It's a list of Q/As about communism from the writings of Marx and Engels - I think, but, in any case, the information here is correct. I see a lot of misinformation going around, and this might clear that up.

    "

    — 1 —
    What is Communism?


    Communism is the doctrine of the conditions of the liberation of the proletariat.

    — 2 —
    What is the proletariat?

    The proletariat is that class in society which lives entirely from the sale of its labor and does not draw profit from any kind of capital; whose weal and woe, whose life and death, whose sole existence depends on the demand for labor – hence, on the changing state of business, on the vagaries of unbridled competition. The proletariat, or the class of proletarians, is, in a word, the working class of the 19th century.[1]

    — 7 —
    In what way do proletarians differ from slaves?


    The slave is sold once and for all; the proletarian must sell himself daily and hourly.

    The individual slave, property of one master, is assured an existence, however miserable it may be, because of the master’s interest. The individual proletarian, property as it were of the entire bourgeois class which buys his labor only when someone has need of it, has no secure existence. This existence is assured only to the class as a whole.

    — 14 —
    What will this new social order have to be like?


    Above all, it will have to take the control of industry and of all branches of production out of the hands of mutually competing individuals, and instead institute a system in which all these branches of production are operated by society as a whole – that is, for the common account, according to a common plan, and with the participation of all members of society.

    It will, in other words, abolish competition and replace it with association.

    Moreover, since the management of industry by individuals necessarily implies private property, and since competition is in reality merely the manner and form in which the control of industry by private property owners expresses itself, it follows that private property cannot be separated from competition and the individual management of industry. Private property must, therefore, be abolished and in its place must come the common utilization of all instruments of production and the distribution of all products according to common agreement – in a word, what is called the communal ownership of goods.

    In fact, the abolition of private property is, doubtless, the shortest and most significant way to characterize the revolution in the whole social order which has been made necessary by the development of industry – and for this reason it is rightly advanced by communists as their main demand.

    — 24 —
    How do communists differ from socialists?


    The so-called socialists are divided into three categories.

    * Two of these have been omitted, as they don't really hold much relevance anymore.

    [ Democratic Socialists: ]


    Finally, the third category consists of democratic socialists who favor some of the same measures the communists advocate, as described in Question 18, not as part of the transition to communism, however, but as measures which they believe will be sufficient to abolish the misery and evils of present-day society.

    These democratic socialists are either proletarians who are not yet sufficiently clear about the conditions of the liberation of their class, or they are representatives of the petty bourgeoisie, a class which, prior to the achievement of democracy and the socialist measures to which it gives rise, has many interests in common with the proletariat.

    It follows that, in moments of action, the communists will have to come to an understanding with these democratic socialists, and in general to follow as far as possible a common policy with them – provided that these socialists do not enter into the service of the ruling bourgeoisie and attack the communists.

    It is clear that this form of co-operation in action does not exclude the discussion of differences.

    "

    http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx...1/prin-com.htm
    Last edited by I'm Watermark; 03-15-2013 at 06:36 AM.

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    This is not good news, it means the Trinity are proles and they don't even know it!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sycamore View Post
    I'm not a communist, and don't pretend to be, but this is still necessary. It's a list of Q/As about communism from the writings of Marx and Engels - I think, but, in any case, the information here is correct. I see a lot of misinformation going around, and this might clear that up.

    "

    — 1 —
    What is Communism?


    Communism is the doctrine of the conditions of the liberation of the proletariat.

    — 2 —
    What is the proletariat?

    The proletariat is that class in society which lives entirely from the sale of its labor and does not draw profit from any kind of capital; whose weal and woe, whose life and death, whose sole existence depends on the demand for labor – hence, on the changing state of business, on the vagaries of unbridled competition. The proletariat, or the class of proletarians, is, in a word, the working class of the 19th century.[1]

    — 7 —
    In what way do proletarians differ from slaves?


    The slave is sold once and for all; the proletarian must sell himself daily and hourly.

    The individual slave, property of one master, is assured an existence, however miserable it may be, because of the master’s interest. The individual proletarian, property as it were of the entire bourgeois class which buys his labor only when someone has need of it, has no secure existence. This existence is assured only to the class as a whole.

    — 14 —
    What will this new social order have to be like?


    Above all, it will have to take the control of industry and of all branches of production out of the hands of mutually competing individuals, and instead institute a system in which all these branches of production are operated by society as a whole – that is, for the common account, according to a common plan, and with the participation of all members of society.

    It will, in other words, abolish competition and replace it with association.

    Moreover, since the management of industry by individuals necessarily implies private property, and since competition is in reality merely the manner and form in which the control of industry by private property owners expresses itself, it follows that private property cannot be separated from competition and the individual management of industry. Private property must, therefore, be abolished and in its place must come the common utilization of all instruments of production and the distribution of all products according to common agreement – in a word, what is called the communal ownership of goods.

    In fact, the abolition of private property is, doubtless, the shortest and most significant way to characterize the revolution in the whole social order which has been made necessary by the development of industry – and for this reason it is rightly advanced by communists as their main demand.

    — 24 —
    How do communists differ from socialists?


    The so-called socialists are divided into three categories.

    * Two of these have been omitted, as they don't really hold much relevance anymore.

    [ Democratic Socialists: ]


    Finally, the third category consists of democratic socialists who favor some of the same measures the communists advocate, as described in Question 18, not as part of the transition to communism, however, but as measures which they believe will be sufficient to abolish the misery and evils of present-day society.

    These democratic socialists are either proletarians who are not yet sufficiently clear about the conditions of the liberation of their class, or they are representatives of the petty bourgeoisie, a class which, prior to the achievement of democracy and the socialist measures to which it gives rise, has many interests in common with the proletariat.

    It follows that, in moments of action, the communists will have to come to an understanding with these democratic socialists, and in general to follow as far as possible a common policy with them – provided that these socialists do not enter into the service of the ruling bourgeoisie and attack the communists.

    It is clear that this form of co-operation in action does not exclude the discussion of differences.

    "

    http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx...1/prin-com.htm
    Thank you for clearing things up, comrade.
    Free speech is cool as long as it jibes with our program.

    -- The Left


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    Quote Originally Posted by Granule View Post
    Thank you for clearing things up, comrade.
    So we can conclude that neither communism nor socialism means dictatorship by one person. Ipso facto Stalin was NOT a communist. Mao was a communist until his policies failed (HIS policies, not general communist policies) and he had to use his power to stop dissent. At that point he was not a communist.
    Socialism is the perfect way of life BUT it has one flaw. That is it depends upon people and people are fickle, ignorant (of their own possibilities and capabilities often) and childlike, in that they seek instant gratification.
    Capitalism serves the dream of instant gratification but its adherents are usually blind to the fact that that gratification is limited to the greedy and dishonest and most supporters of capitalism are worse off than they would be under a socialist ot democratic socialist system.
    Governments (of all shades) have an interest in keeping people stupid and their minds concentrated on the minutiae of life. Guns and gods are wonderful tools to keep dissent and the pursuit of happiness in check and to keep the people governable. As long as you need money to be paid to you by another person you are not free and no words in a constitution can change that.
    http://www.justplainpolitics.com/blog.php?u=237
    If you feel so inclined a comment would be appreciated.

    Respect a believers right to believe, but they should damn well repect our right to challenge such utterly illogical notions.


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    A single despot can surely enforce the taking of owner's property and the placing of that property into the hands of the workers. He may have to step in occasionally and restore order when the people start fighting for control, and when they screw up and run the businesses and factories into the ground.

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