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Thread: The Middle East

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rune View Post
    Right. Neither did Christiefan. Thats the point.
    I'm saying that it could be taken from her post, and asked her to clarify.

    Jesus, just stick to the topic folks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nikola Tesla View Post
    stick to the topic folks.
    How dependent on our help was/is the Arab Spring? Is it truly successful or is the taliban gaining power and legitimacy as a result of our "support"?
    It is the responsibility of every American citizen to own a modern military rifle.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rune View Post
    How dependent on our help was/is the Arab Spring? Is it truly successful or is the taliban gaining power and legitimacy as a result of our "support"?
    Depends on how you define support. The Iraqi invasion was, in part, to trigger the Arab Spring. So in that instance it's entirely dependent on our support. But if you mean us flying bombing campaigns in Libya, that only hastened the inevitable victory. Success is a complicated matter. Democracy does not just happen. This would be the first generation to experience it in most, if not all, of Arabic recorded history. They're not going to get everything right the first time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nikola Tesla View Post
    Depends on how you define support. The Iraqi invasion was, in part, to trigger the Arab Spring. So in that instance it's entirely dependent on our support. But if you mean us flying bombing campaigns in Libya, that only hastened the inevitable victory. Success is a complicated matter. Democracy does not just happen. This would be the first generation to experience it in most, if not all, of Arabic recorded history. They're not going to get everything right the first time.
    So you agree our support is not needed, and you are willing to accept the strengthening of the taliban and al-quaida as a casualty of our interference?
    It is the responsibility of every American citizen to own a modern military rifle.

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    ME still sucks, and likely always will. I hope we don't get anymore involved, and eventually leave the people to their own century. I'm not really worried much about the Iranian nuclear program, seeing as how Iran is far more stable than the shithole that is Pakistan. If anyone has a problem with it, that would be Israel, and they can handle it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Edison View Post
    Not really a fan of Arab Spring, seeing as how a proto-democratic ME is far more problematic to us than a despotic one.
    That's actualy a typical conservative veiwpoint. It's better for you and the suckers living under the despots can fuckoff. In order for society to continue to evolve, we all must adopt more humanitarian attitudes.
    It is the responsibility of every American citizen to own a modern military rifle.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rune View Post
    That's actualy a typical conservative veiwpoint. It's better for you and the suckers living under the despots can fuckoff. In order for society to continue to evolve, we all must adopt more humanitarian attitudes.
    Your stance of leave them alone basically means the same thing. I just point out one reason why I would prefer to leave them alone. I would rather have fewer 9/11's than gamble on this evolution thingy...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rune View Post
    So you agree our support is not needed, and you are willing to accept the strengthening of the taliban and al-quaida as a casualty of our interference?
    Support isn't needed, but I encourage certain actions, such as providing training to rebels, and various forms of aid. However, were we to not do this, I would not be upset.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sigmund Freud View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rune View Post
    That's actualy a typical conservative veiwpoint. It's better for you and the suckers living under the despots can fuckoff. In order for society to continue to evolve, we all must adopt more humanitarian attitudes.
    No, we must adopt more isolationist views. If they choose to nuke themselves, I honestly won't care.
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    The neocon stance is actually the most humanitarian.

    Conservatives like me want to isolate the ME within its own century. Liberals want to do nothing, and pretend like they are helping to save lives, respect other cultures, etc. Neocons want to actively engage in the ME militarily and finantially, so as to spread liberty/democracy and build new/lost infrastructure (oh, yeah, and save beloved Israel).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Edison View Post
    The neocon stance is actually the most humanitarian.

    Conservatives like me want to isolate the ME within its own century. Liberals want to do nothing, and pretend like they are helping to save lives, respect other cultures, etc. Neocons want to actively engage in the ME militarily and finantially, so as to spread liberty/democracy and build new/lost infrastructure (oh, yeah, and save beloved Israel).
    The neocon stance is pure zionism and there is nothing remotely humanitarian about zionism.

    Conservatives/neocons have never learned the limits of military power .. even when it fails so miserably.

    The good news it that the world is realigning.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Edison View Post
    Does that mean the ME will become less of a shithole?
    Why/how would that happen?
    It is the responsibility of every American citizen to own a modern military rifle.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Edison View Post
    Does that mean the ME will become less of a shithole?
    Possibly, but unlikely until we get a new source of fuel. There's too much money to be made in screwing over the ME. For an easy comparison check out the last 50-70 years of the Qing Dynasty in China. The similarities are staggering and given the way China has turned out, rather scary. Eventually "the middle east will stand up" (see China and the Korean War) and when it does, what are they going to remember about the way the west treated them? We're not making friends over there.
    "In the bath tub of history the truth is harder to find than the soap and more difficult to hold on to."

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