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    Default drones "count all military age men in strike zone as "combatants"

    Chris Woods, The Bureau of Investigative Journalism
    Updated at 7:52 a.m. ET: LONDON -- Two U.S. reports published Tuesday provide significant insights into President Obama’s personal and controversial role in the escalating covert U.S. drone war in Pakistan, Yemen and Somalia.

    In a major extract from Daniel Klaidman’s forthcoming book Kill Or Capture, the author reveals extensive details of how secret U.S. drone strikes have evolved under Obama – and how the president knew of civilian casualties from his earliest days in office.TheNew York Times has also published a key investigation exploring how the Obama Administration runs its secret 'Kill List' – the names of those chosen for execution by CIA and Pentagon drones outside the conventional battlefield.

    The Times' report also reveals that President Obama "embraced" a broadening of the term "civilian", helping to limit any public controversy over "non-combatant" deaths.

    As the Bureau's own data on Pakistan makes clear, the very first covert drone strikes of the Obama presidency, just three days after he took office, resulted in civilian deaths in Pakistan. As many as 19 civilians – including four children – died in two error-filled attacks.Until now it had been thought that Obama was initially unaware of the civilian deaths. Bob Woodward has reported that the president was only told by CIA chief Michael Hayden that the strikes had missed their High Value Target but had killed "five al Qaeda militants."Read more stories from The Bureau of Investigative Journalism

    Now Newsweek correspondent Daniel Klaidman reveals that Obama knew about the civilian deaths within hours. He reports an anonymous participant at a subsequent meeting with the president: "You could tell from his body language that he was not a happy man." Obama is described aggressively questioning the tactics used.

    Yet despite the errors, the president ultimately chose to keep in place the CIA’s controversial policy of using "signature strikes" against unknown militants. That tactic has just been extended to Yemen.

    On another notorious occasion, the article reveals that U.S. officials were aware at the earliest stage that civilians – including "dozens of women and children" – had died in Obama’s first ordered strike in Yemen in December 2009. The Bureau recently named all 44 civilians killed in that attack by cruise missiles.No U.S. officials have ever spoken publicly about the strike, although secret diplomatic cables released by Wikileaks proved that the U.S. was responsible. Now Klaidman reveals that Jeh Johnson, one of the State Department’s senior lawyers, watched the strike take place with others on a video screen:

    "Johnson returned to his Georgetown home around midnight that evening, drained and exhausted. Later there were reports from human-rights groups that dozens of women and children had been killed in the attacks, reports that a military source involved in the operation termed “persuasive.” Johnson would confide to others, “If I were Catholic, I’d have to go to confession.”

    Klaidman describes a world in which the CIA and Pentagon constantly push for significant attacks on the U.S.’s enemies. In March 2009, for example, then Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Mike Mullen reportedly called for the bombing of an entire training camp in southern Somalia in order to kill one militant leader.Pakistan official: US drone strike hits mosque; 10 killed

    One dissenter at the meeting is said to have described the tactic as "carpet-bombing a country." The attack did not go ahead.

    Obama is generally described as attempting to rein back both the CIA and the Pentagon. But in the case of Anwar al-Awlaki – "Obama’s Threat Number One" – different rules applied.

    An American-born cleric killed in Yemen played a "significant operational role" in plotting and inspiring attacks on the United States, U.S. officials said Friday. Anwar al-Awlaki was implicated in a botched attempt to bomb a Detroit-bound plane in 2009. NBC's Jim Miklaszewski reports.
    According to Klaidman, Obama let it be known that he would consider allowing civilian deaths if it meant killing the U.S.-Yemeni cleric. "Bring it to me and let me decide in the reality of the moment rather than in the abstract," an aide recalls him saying. No civilians died that day, as it turned out.

    In its own major investigation, the New York Times examines the secret US 'Kill List' – the names of those chosen for death at the hands of US drones. The report is based on interviews with more than 36 key individuals with knowledge of the scheme.

    Obama's first term has seen private warnings from top officials about a 'Whac-A-Mole' approach to counterterrorism; the invention of a new category of aerial attack following complaints of careless targeting; and presidential acquiescence in a formula for counting civilian deaths that some officials think is skewed to produce low numbers."

    It is often been reported that President Obama has urged officials to avoid wherever possible the deaths of civilians in covert U.S. actions in Pakistan and elsewhere. But reporters Jo Becker and Scott Shane reveal that Obama inserted a loophole.

    "Mr. Obama embraced a disputed method for counting civilian casualties that did little to box him in. It in effect counts all military-age males in a strike zone as combatants, according to several administration officials, unless there is explicit intelligence posthumously proving them innocent."
    So concerned have some officials been by this "false accounting" that they have taken their concerns direct to the White House, according to the New York Times.

    The revelation helps explain the wide variation between credible reports of civilian deaths in Pakistan by the Bureau and others, and the CIA’s claims that it had killed no "non-combatants" between May 2010 and September 2011 – and possibly later.

    The investigation also reveals that more than 100 U.S. officials take part in a weekly "death list" video conference run by the Pentagon, at which it is decided who will be added to the U.S. military’s kill/ capture lists. "A parallel, more cloistered selection process at the CIA focuses largely on Pakistan, where that agency conducts strikes," the paper reports.

    But according to at least one former senior administration official, Obama’s obsession with targeted killings is "dangerously seductive." Retired admiral Dennis Blair, the former US Director of National Intelligence, told the paper that the campaign was:

    "The politically advantageous thing to do — low cost, no US casualties, gives the appearance of toughness. It plays well domestically, and it is unpopular only in other countries. Any damage it does to the national interest only shows up over the long term."

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    cant post a fucking link, WTF? so I posted the article. i ain''y got time to play games., NOOB or not.
    This is critical for all the morans(sic) who think Obama's nice clean wars don't have any blowback.

    Death by video-game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by annata View Post
    cant post a fucking link, WTF? so I posted the article. i ain''y got time to play games., NOOB or not.
    This is critical for all the morans(sic) who think Obama's nice clean wars don't have any blowback.

    Death by video-game.
    carpet bombing? have you seen the photographs of carpet bombing during wwii
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    how do you edit a post for spelling?

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    Quote Originally Posted by annata View Post
    how do you edit a post for spelling?
    On every post, on the bottom right, there is a "reply" option and a "reply with quote" option. On your own posts, also on the bottom right, the very first option before reply and reply with quote, is "edit". Click on that, make your changes, and then "save" them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darla View Post
    On every post, on the bottom right, there is a "reply" option and a "reply with quote" option. On your own posts, also on the bottom right, the very first option before reply and reply with quote, is "edit". Click on that, make your changes, and then "save" them.
    Edit feature is unavailable until a certain number of posts is reached, perhaps 15 or so. Maybe 10. Just keep posting and then go back and edit lkater when you hjave the priveledge.
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    Quote Originally Posted by annata View Post
    how do you edit a post for spelling?
    Once you hit 15 posts you will be able to edit your own posts (after the system finally gets around to upgrading you to verified user)...
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    Quote Originally Posted by annata View Post
    how do you edit a post for spelling?
    At the bottom of each post there is an edit option.

    Also, Obomber is a lulz term.
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    Quote Originally Posted by C'Thulhu View Post
    At the bottom of each post there is an edit option.

    Also, Obomber is a lulz term.
    can be. I don't use it most of the time, just on wars -including Libya, which we fractured -LED by the US, with NATO sock puppets.
    At the end it was only the old colonials GB, France and the US -the rest of NATO dropped out.

    If you know about the imprisionment of sub-saharans without trails, militias running the country, and even the cities.
    Then you know we destroyed a working state for a fragmented militia run areas,
    The "revolutionarys" were E Africa thugs, who leader "swore off" ties to al_Qaeda. Funy thing is the MAN_PADS and Stingers went missing when the Rebels captured Tripoli. Thanklfully many qwere recovered, as they tries to smuggle them out thru Egypt.

    NTC had recent elections(finally), but lacks real authority and popular support.,so Libyba has been fractured along tribal/ethnic enclaves.

    So much beter then Gaddafi *-when libya had one of the highest standards of living in Africa. before "liberationby assassination of Gaddafi"
    Women participated in gov't - we backed a gang in PICK UP TRUCKS, whom were pissed off Bengazi wasn't getting enough oil money.

    It's a sordid tale of breaking existing China's SCO contracts, for first rights of refusal for the EU (China refused to back the Rebels), on new contracts for Libyan light sweet crude -easily extracted.

    This is a short list of the mayhem we sow. Obomber is no LOL (laughing matter). I could list a bill of particulars; but Americans are too fucking dumb to understand 'American Exceptionalism" used as "hard power" is espensive, and breeds hate.

    Contrasr China use of soft power to get minerals inAfrica -by treaty.
    They'll back it up some day with hard power -but now they're content to see us flail like a bird stuck in tarball for the present
    Last edited by anatta; 05-30-2012 at 07:30 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Don Quixote View Post
    carpet bombing? have you seen the photographs of carpet bombing during wwii
    if that is your bifggest riticism of the piece *shrug* - it's hyperboyle -but doesn't change the story.

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    Quote Originally Posted by annata View Post
    if that is your bifggest riticism of the piece *shrug* - it's hyperboyle -but doesn't change the story.
    first, i do not support the war anymore

    second, how do you fight a war without killing people when your enemy hides among civilians

    third, the taliban/al qaeda have killed more afghan civilians than we/nato have

    all that we can do now is admit that the war was a mistake and withdraw
    I pledge allegiance to the constitution of the United States of America as amended by the legislative and executive branches and interpreted by the Supreme Court

    We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America

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    Quote Originally Posted by Don Quixote View Post
    first, i do not support the war anymore

    second, how do you fight a war without killing people when your enemy hides among civilians

    third, the taliban/al qaeda have killed more afghan civilians than we/nato have

    all that we can do now is admit that the war was a mistake and withdraw
    I'm not sure -where do you get the figures the Taliban eclipses the US in AfPak deaths?

    Anyways say you're correct, this war on terror is what bin Laden wanted -an eternal campaign -you can't kill them all at one time, so they move, and reform.

    The DENIAL we're killing civilians was problematic enough, but collateral damage just radicalizes the populations more.
    ( how would you like it if it happened to your family.

    Yes it's a mistake, no it's not going to end, even AfPak "support" is scheduled to go past 2020 -we're involved in that region, we're going to see more and more.

    One day soon other natons wil l have drones..then when we get hit "oh well".


    I don't think it's possible to stop this now, it's too ingrained, been going on for too long, Enjoy the Crusades, they're gona be here a long time -even 'after' AfPak

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    Quote Originally Posted by Don Quixote View Post

    second, how do you fight a war without killing people when your enemy hides among civilians
    There will always be collateral damage. Simply labeling any young males who you happened to kill as "militiants", and thus not civilians, is a rather sloppy practice, though.
    "Do not think that I came to bring peace... I did not come to bring peace, but a sword." - Matthew 10:34

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    i's on MSNBC . com.

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    now can i post darn link, and not he whole page? I'm on 3 boards, i'm thinking of dropping 1 or 2, so I want to be able to post. sorry to the Powers that be.

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