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Thread: Say it with me...

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    WinterBorn Guest

    Default Say it with me...

    A friend of mine posted this on FaceBook, and I thought it was well stated. So I decided to bring it here and see if some discussion could be made from it.


    "The other day I saw a letter in the paper from a man responding to some letter from another reader who apparently had argued that 'good' people should not have to pay for the sexual activity of bad ones in the form of insurance-provided contraception. The second man presented a nice argument about why it is Ok for the government to pay for contraception and pointed out that we all pay for things we don't want, like war. It was a well-written letter, and it missed the point entirely, as most people in this ridiculous and Puritanical fuss over birth control do.
    I respond to the "Contraception avoids high costs" letter of March 11th. Mr. Miller sets out well-reasoned arguments, unfortunately, he defeats a straw man and proves that Rush Limbaugh has accomplished exactly what he set out to do.

    This is not about the government paying for anything. This is about insurance. Say it with me: Insurance insurance insurance.

    Our president is not proposing that the government hand out free birth control pills on streetcorners to wayward college students. He simply says that your health insurance, something you pay for, should cover certain basic health needs. He believes that a woman whose doctor says she needs hormonal treatment for an ovarian condition should not end up having to have that ovary cut out of her body because a group of men believe that their religion should get to control her body. Mr Limbaugh wants you to think about sex videos of coeds instead of women being denied needed medical treatment because of the misogynist rantings of someone's religion.

    This was never about how much sex liberals have, or protecting freedom of religion. Rush Limbaugh judged that the battle could be won if he got people to think about it in that way, however, the same way he and others have sucessfully convinced so many that if their child is able to get treatment for a painful pre-existing (and so formerly excluded) condition… this is somehow evil.
    These red herrings are being thrown in our path to drive wedges into society: between left and right, men and women, rich and poor. Because rest assured, the rich will always be able to buy hormonal birth control whether insurance pays for it or not, just as they will be able to get abortions without waiting periods and transvaginal ultrasounds.

    This new policy is simply about guaranteeing poor, often married, working-class women the right to get the medication their doctor prescribes them, regardless of their bosses interpretation of the Bible.

    Say it one more time, with feeling: Insurance!

    by Tracy Lynne Stout Meisky"

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    This is about insurance. Say it with me: Insurance insurance insurance.
    Say it with me.... EVERYTHING mandated for insurance to cover, increases the COST of insurance!

    Liberals want to pretend that insurance companies can provide this or that, cover this or that, and pay for this or that, and it doesn't cost anyone a thing. In reality, every thing we mandate the insurance must cover, exponentially increases the price of coverage. Now, it seems to me, if we are currently having the national debate over COST OF HEALTH CARE, we would want to do things which DECREASE the cost, not INCREASE them.

    Why should insurance companies have to cover the cost of contraception? Especially, if the insurance is going to be subsidized by taxpayers? This has nothing to do with 'religious beliefs' and everything to do with common sense and practicality. I can understand some rare instance where a woman is prescribed birth control pills to rectify some unrelated problem other than contraception, and I have no problem with that exception, but to demand the insurance company foot the bill for your sex habit by supplying birth control, is ridiculous, and show just how far left things have been pushed. This is exactly the kind of shit that needs to stop, and conservatives need to learn how to frame the debate. They have absolutely allowed the left to run roughshod on this bullshit, without so much as a single voice of reason, trying to inject some sanity.

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    Excellent post. I'm surprised most insurances companies don't cover this. Birth control isn't that expensive, and its pragmatic to cover it so that they don't have to pay for larger complications in the future.
    WATERMARK, GREATEST OF THE TRINITY, ON CHIK-FIL-A
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dixie View Post
    Say it with me.... EVERYTHING mandated for insurance to cover, increases the COST of insurance!

    Liberals want to pretend that insurance companies can provide this or that, cover this or that, and pay for this or that, and it doesn't cost anyone a thing. In reality, every thing we mandate the insurance must cover, exponentially increases the price of coverage. Now, it seems to me, if we are currently having the national debate over COST OF HEALTH CARE, we would want to do things which DECREASE the cost, not INCREASE them.

    Why should insurance companies have to cover the cost of contraception? Especially, if the insurance is going to be subsidized by taxpayers? This has nothing to do with 'religious beliefs' and everything to do with common sense and practicality. I can understand some rare instance where a woman is prescribed birth control pills to rectify some unrelated problem other than contraception, and I have no problem with that exception, but to demand the insurance company foot the bill for your sex habit by supplying birth control, is ridiculous, and show just how far left things have been pushed. This is exactly the kind of shit that needs to stop, and conservatives need to learn how to frame the debate. They have absolutely allowed the left to run roughshod on this bullshit, without so much as a single voice of reason, trying to inject some sanity.
    Because paying for pregnancies and children is cheaper on the insurance companies.
    WATERMARK, GREATEST OF THE TRINITY, ON CHIK-FIL-A
    Quote Originally Posted by Sigmund Freud View Post
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    www.gunsbeerfreedom.blogspot.com

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  8. #5 | Top
    WinterBorn Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dixie View Post
    Say it with me.... EVERYTHING mandated for insurance to cover, increases the COST of insurance!

    Liberals want to pretend that insurance companies can provide this or that, cover this or that, and pay for this or that, and it doesn't cost anyone a thing. In reality, every thing we mandate the insurance must cover, exponentially increases the price of coverage. Now, it seems to me, if we are currently having the national debate over COST OF HEALTH CARE, we would want to do things which DECREASE the cost, not INCREASE them.

    Why should insurance companies have to cover the cost of contraception? Especially, if the insurance is going to be subsidized by taxpayers? This has nothing to do with 'religious beliefs' and everything to do with common sense and practicality. I can understand some rare instance where a woman is prescribed birth control pills to rectify some unrelated problem other than contraception, and I have no problem with that exception, but to demand the insurance company foot the bill for your sex habit by supplying birth control, is ridiculous, and show just how far left things have been pushed. This is exactly the kind of shit that needs to stop, and conservatives need to learn how to frame the debate. They have absolutely allowed the left to run roughshod on this bullshit, without so much as a single voice of reason, trying to inject some sanity.
    Rare? Hormonal borth control is used to treat many illnesses and medical problems. It is not a rare occurance.

    It is a medical treatment. If its not about religious beliefs then why select only what effects women? Why not cut out long shot cancer treatments or organ transplants?

    This is about having medical insurance cover medical needs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Rocketfingers View Post
    Because paying for pregnancies and children is cheaper on the insurance companies.
    Really? That would require us to believe that women, who would otherwise use contraception, are going to choose to become pregnant because the insurance company wouldn't pay for their birth control, and I don't believe that. I think most women who would want to use birth control to avoid pregnancy, would probably either not have unprotected sex, or they would pay for the contraception themselves... I bet the percentage who would choose to just become pregnant even though they didn't really want to, is slim to none.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WinterBorn View Post
    Rare? Hormonal borth control is used to treat many illnesses and medical problems. It is not a rare occurance.

    It is a medical treatment. If its not about religious beliefs then why select only what effects women? Why not cut out long shot cancer treatments or organ transplants?

    This is about having medical insurance cover medical needs.
    Yes, RARE! If birth control was used more to treat illness and medical problems, it wouldn't be called "birth control pills" it would be called something else, and in rare cases, it would be used as birth control.... but that's not how it is, it's the other way around.

    Medical insurance should cover medical needs... birth control isn't a medical "need" it is a preventative measure. Should insurance pay for our toothpaste? Our toilet paper? Feminine napkins? Deodorant? Vitamins? Energy drinks? Exercise equipment? An argument can be made for ANY of these items, on the exact same basis. And we hear all these arguments... oh, it's relatively "cheap" to do this.... well fucking GREAT! If it's so cheap, people can afford to pay for it without my tax money!

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  12. #8 | Top
    WinterBorn Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dixie View Post
    Yes, RARE! If birth control was used more to treat illness and medical problems, it wouldn't be called "birth control pills" it would be called something else, and in rare cases, it would be used as birth control.... but that's not how it is, it's the other way around.

    Medical insurance should cover medical needs... birth control isn't a medical "need" it is a preventative measure. Should insurance pay for our toothpaste? Our toilet paper? Feminine napkins? Deodorant? Vitamins? Energy drinks? Exercise equipment? An argument can be made for ANY of these items, on the exact same basis. And we hear all these arguments... oh, it's relatively "cheap" to do this.... well fucking GREAT! If it's so cheap, people can afford to pay for it without my tax money!
    Its good to see you did your research, because the common name of a medicine is all you have??

    Birth control pills are often used to treat painful menstrual cycles, heavy or irregular periods (my daughter is on them for this), and is one of the best treatments for ovarian cysts.

    In other words, by taking a pill they can contain the ovarian cysts. Without containing the cysts women will often have to have an ovary removed. (from: http://womenshealth.about.com/cs/the...benorcontr.htm )

    "Taking oral contraceptives (OCs) can slash your risk for both endometrial and ovarian cancer by more than 70 percent after 12 years; even just one to five years may lower your risk by 40 percent" (from: http://www.webmd.com/sex/birth-contr...-take-the-pill )

    "Adolescent girls and young women are frequently prescribed birth control pills for irregular or absent menstrual periods, menstrual cramps, acne, PMS, endometriosis, and for Polycystic Ovary Syndrome."

    This website says "frequently". http://www.youngwomenshealth.org/med-uses-ocp.html



    And last, but certainly not least: "The most common reason U.S. women use oral contraceptive pills is to prevent pregnancy, but 14% of pill users—1.5 million women—rely on them exclusively for noncontraceptive purposes" (from: http://www.guttmacher.org/media/nr/2.../15/index.html )

    Also from the same website: "The study—based on U.S government data from the National Survey of Family Growth (NSFG)—revealed that after pregnancy prevention (86%), the most common reasons women use the pill include reducing cramps or menstrual pain (31%); menstrual regulation, which for some women may help prevent migraines and other painful “side effects” of menstruation (28%); treatment of acne (14%); and treatment of endometriosis (4%). Additionally, it found that some 762,000 women who have never had sex use the pill, and they do so almost exclusively (99%) for noncontraceptive reasons."

    14% of pill users (1.5 million women) use oral contraceptives for medical reasons other than contraception. I wouldn't call that rare.

    Jeez Dixie, deodorant and energy drinks??? You are comparing a medical treatment used by 1.5 million women to wanting insurance companies to pay for deodorant and energy drinks?? That is ridiculous, even for you.

    And what tax money?? This is about requiring insurance companies to cover oral contraceptives. It is not about your tax dollars. It is about what your insurance company will cover. Many insurance companies cover viagra, massage therapy and whatever. But you want to remove the best treatment for ovarian cysts, painful periods, irregular or heavy periods, endometriosis and other medical conditions? You want to not require insurance companies to pay for these because of your tax dollars??? WTF?


    And bear in mind, aspirin is a pain reliever. But how many people take it for a heart condition? Insurance covers it.
    Last edited by WinterBorn; 04-02-2012 at 11:40 PM.

  13. #9 | Top
    WinterBorn Guest

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    And just as an FYI, I got in touch with a friend who has been unemployed for quite a while. Her daughter is on oral contraceptives for the same reason my daughter is on them. And being unemployed for over 6 months, she is eligible for Medicaid. Guess who pays for the birth control pills??

    So your tax dollars are already paying for them for medical reasons. It is other insurance companies that have tried to weasel out of paying.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dixie View Post
    Say it with me.... EVERYTHING mandated for insurance to cover, increases the COST of insurance!

    Liberals want to pretend that insurance companies can provide this or that, cover this or that, and pay for this or that, and it doesn't cost anyone a thing. In reality, every thing we mandate the insurance must cover, exponentially increases the price of coverage. Now, it seems to me, if we are currently having the national debate over COST OF HEALTH CARE, we would want to do things which DECREASE the cost, not INCREASE them.

    Why should insurance companies have to cover the cost of contraception? Especially, if the insurance is going to be subsidized by taxpayers? This has nothing to do with 'religious beliefs' and everything to do with common sense and practicality. I can understand some rare instance where a woman is prescribed birth control pills to rectify some unrelated problem other than contraception, and I have no problem with that exception, but to demand the insurance company foot the bill for your sex habit by supplying birth control, is ridiculous, and show just how far left things have been pushed. This is exactly the kind of shit that needs to stop, and conservatives need to learn how to frame the debate. They have absolutely allowed the left to run roughshod on this bullshit, without so much as a single voice of reason, trying to inject some sanity.
    Dixie....math just isn't your thing is it? Insurance has mandates because THEY LOWER COSTS!!!!!!!!!!!! The judicious use of hormonal birth control by qualified professional health care providers, not religious zealots and political partisans who studied faith healing, prevents a host of very costly medical conditions for women. Get that "PREVENTS" and as Poor Richard famously stated, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

    Ya'll need to get your nose out of other peoples private business and quit trying to practice a profession for which you have no qualifications. Managing their own reproductive health is a legitimate womans health concern, whether you like it or not, and simply none of your damned business. This is an issue between a woman and her doctor.
    You're Never Alone With A Schizophrenic!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Rocketfingers View Post
    Excellent post. I'm surprised most insurances companies don't cover this. Birth control isn't that expensive, and its pragmatic to cover it so that they don't have to pay for larger complications in the future.
    I'm sorry but that is silly.....coffee isn't expensive either.....should the government mandate that insurance provide me my morning coffee?.....if you add the cost of contraception into an insurance policy the company is simply going to add the cost of providing contraception to the premium.....whether you're 19 or 60......at 60 I'm already required by the federal government to pay for an insurance policy that provides me with maternity care and dental for my nonexistent minor children.....if you want contraceptives pay for them yourself........
    Isaiah 6:5
    “Woe to me!” I cried. “I am ruined! For I am a man of unclean lips, and I live among a people of unclean lips, and my eyes have seen the King, the Lord Almighty.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by WinterBorn View Post
    And what tax money?? This is about requiring insurance companies to cover oral contraceptives. It is not about your tax dollars. It is about what your insurance company will cover. Many insurance companies cover viagra, massage therapy and whatever. But you want to remove the best treatment for ovarian cysts, painful periods, irregular or heavy periods, endometriosis and other medical conditions? You want to not require insurance companies to pay for these because of your tax dollars??? WTF?
    I see you've forgotten about Obama care already.......don't you remember that our tax dollars are going to start providing health insurance to 40 million people next year?.....
    Isaiah 6:5
    “Woe to me!” I cried. “I am ruined! For I am a man of unclean lips, and I live among a people of unclean lips, and my eyes have seen the King, the Lord Almighty.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by WinterBorn View Post
    And just as an FYI, I got in touch with a friend who has been unemployed for quite a while. Her daughter is on oral contraceptives for the same reason my daughter is on them. And being unemployed for over 6 months, she is eligible for Medicaid. Guess who pays for the birth control pills??

    So your tax dollars are already paying for them for medical reasons. It is other insurance companies that have tried to weasel out of paying.
    which of course is irrelevant, since she's being prescribed the medication for reasons other than for birth control.....which means that saying that it could be provided by the insurance company for the reason it was prescribed rather than simply birth control......
    Isaiah 6:5
    “Woe to me!” I cried. “I am ruined! For I am a man of unclean lips, and I live among a people of unclean lips, and my eyes have seen the King, the Lord Almighty.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by Derp Derp View Post
    Dixie....math just isn't your thing is it? Insurance has mandates because THEY LOWER COSTS!!!!!!!!!!!!
    in this case he's right.....if the law decides insurance must pay for coffee, the insurance company simply adds the cost of coffee to the premium whether you drink coffee or don't.....

    Managing their own reproductive health is a legitimate womans health concern, whether you like it or not, and simply none of your damned business. This is an issue between a woman and her doctor.
    ????......really?.....then why the fuck do we suddenly have to start paying it for her?...........
    Isaiah 6:5
    “Woe to me!” I cried. “I am ruined! For I am a man of unclean lips, and I live among a people of unclean lips, and my eyes have seen the King, the Lord Almighty.”

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    WinterBorn Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by PostmodernProphet View Post

    ????......really?.....then why the fuck do we suddenly have to start paying it for her?...........
    Who says we are paying for it? No more thanwe are paying for my high blood pressure meds, or your ulcer meds, or anyone else's medications.

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