Republican Ideology through History

[midcan5]

There's no need to quote me, I know what I know and check what I don't. Imagine a martian reading A, and A says X happened at this time under this president and B saying no, nonsense. Hopefully the martian has Google, or could both A and B be correct - at least online, we'll leave the reality for a moment? In today's revisionist world in which money and the desire to paint one's party in pretty colors creates history, one can find translations of reality of all sorts. I remember when publicists first noted we were a debtor nation.

I see that several stumbling blocks will keep our positions on opposite sides but so what. You write as if Carter started the economy from scratch, he inherited a mess, it is one reason the nation moved to elect a democrat, largely unknown. Stagflation as a concept for the economy was already in use, did he work any magic, no, but neither did Reagan, the Fed worked some one time magic which later did not work. Oil prices and embargoes hurt both Nixon/Ford and Carter. Get real.

Was the economy better under Reagan for the middle class? Maybe, but I can tell you from my experience it was not. Stats below say no too. And I can provide lots of links on just how bad he was. It was the beginning of corporate downsizing and the eventual collapse of voodoo economics. This occurred even as Reagan raised taxes on us constantly. These things I witnessed and experienced - seeing many good people let go to only boost the bottom line. This continues today with outsourcing and moving manufacturing overseas.

Of course you can disagree with the article stating Reagan was asleep at the wheel, it conflicts with your mental image. Reality is made up. Yes, I too am guilty. But there is the pudding and 'It's the economy Stupid!' became the cry after Reagan/Bush. So while we see things differently there is something out that happened and it is why Clinton won.

"No matter how we cut it, the rise in the surplus during the Clinton years was truly historic. Mr. Reagan however, was unable to trim a single penny from the deficit from where it was when he began his presidency. Mr. Clinton cut the deficit every year until we had record surpluses." http://zzpat.tripod.com/graphs.htm

To your other question on how Reagan hurt workers see this article and for those interested in history check out the book. "The Reagan administration also made weakening the power of unions a top priority. The people he appointed to the National Labor Relations Board were qualitatively more pro-management than appointees by prior Democratic or Republican presidents. This allowed companies to ignore workers' rights with impunity. Reagan also made the firing of strikers an acceptable business practice when he fired striking air traffic controllers in 1981. Many large corporations quickly embraced the practice. Also, his high dollar policy in the mid-'80s was a severe blow to manufacturing unions, who suddenly had to compete against low-cost imports that were essentially subsidized by an overvalued dollar." http://www.cepr.net/index.php/op-eds...to-a-dead-end/


Superfreak wrote, "Almost all of the fraud occurred under Clinton." That line demonstrates the fantasy-land you live in and believe in. Did you miss the Saving and Loan debacle? Again for the interested reader check out baker's book in link above.

Minimum wage is just another of your bogeymen, weird how all of you have the same bogeymen, proves my points about the power corporate propaganda has on you, and the power they have in politics. Have you ever talked to an honest person about Wal-Mart and its disgusting practices? Time you did. "Not only does there seem to be widespread social fragmentation and disillusionment with democracy in the United States, but the possibility of reversing this sense of alienation appears to many of us to be already lost. Any democratic president who wants to institute the desperately needed reforms in health, welfare and the environment faces one of two options. He can stick by his reform program and suffer a loss of public confidence through orchestrated campaigns to publicly portray him as 'too liberal' and ineffectual (the Carter image) or too indecisive or sexually indiscreet (the Clinton image). Alternatively, a reforming democratic president can move further to the Right, forget his promises and become part of the propaganda campaign. Given the history of democratic propaganda in the United States, some of us doubt that another Roosevelt or New Deal is possible. The political system is now so attuned to business interests that this kind of reformer could no longer institute the substantial health, welfare, education, environmental and employment reforms the country needs." Andrew Lohrey, Introduction, Alex Carey "Taking the Risk Out of Democracy"

But I have to say when I started work in what was once the largest corporation on earth, things were different, I have had a good life and don't write for myself, if the adage about age and conservatism were true I'd be on your side but that goes against my moral upbringing.

And Republicans cheered, that is fact, to deny that is deny reality. Does the word include every known republican on the face of the earth? Doesn't matter, republicans booed a veteran and cheered death panels and executions. Skirt it, excuse it, however you like.

One element that often goes unnoticed is the power of the conservative corporate side to rail against any democrat who they see as they threat to their power and priviledge. I don't remember as much with Carter but Clinton and Obama have been attacked from the beginning. This aspect of American politics has changed greatly in my life time.

"For anyone born after 1945, the welfare state and its institutions were not a solution to earlier dilemmas: they were simply the normal conditions of life - and more than a little dull. The baby boomers, entering university in the mid sixties, had only ever known the world of improving life chances, generous medical and educational services, optimistic prospects of a upward social mobility and - perhaps above all - an indefinable but ubiquitous sense of security. The goals of an earlier generation of reformers were no longer of interest to their successors. On the contrary they were increasingly perceived as restrictions upon the self-expression and freedom of the individual." Tony Judt 'Ill Fares the Land' http://www.amazon.com/Ill-Fares-Land...=books&ie=UTF8


Taxes.

"The Reagan administration, with the help of Democrats in Congress, lowered the tax rate on the very rich to 50 percent and in 1986 a coalition of Republicans and Democrats sponsored another "tax reform" bill that lowered the top rate to 28 percent. Barlett and Steele noted that a schoolteacher, a factory worker, and a billionaire could all pay 28 percent. The idea of a "progressive" income in which the rich paid at higher rates than everyone else was now almost dead." from Howard Zinn 'A People's History of the United States"

"There is no historical evidence that tax cuts spur economic growth. The highest period of growth in U.S. history (1933-1973) also saw its highest tax rates on the rich: 70 to 91 percent. During this period, the general tax rate climbed as well, but it reached a plateau in 1969, and growth slowed down five years later. Almost all rich nations have higher general taxes than the U.S., and they are growing faster as well." Tax cuts spur economic growth
The Idolatry of Ideology-Why Tax Cuts Hurt the Economy by Russ Beaton
Spending Cuts Vs. Tax Increases at the State Level, 10/30/01
The rich get rich because of their merit.

[Liberty]

I find it interesting that this is titled a history of Republican ideology when so many of the items that are complained of begin with Kennedy did.....LBJ did.....Clinton did......

You mean, "you read all that?"

[PostmodernProphet]

You mean, "you read all that?"

yes...I think midcan was the one who didn't.....

consider some of these entries from the perspective of a chronic conservative hater like midcan.....

Eisenhower ignores right wing war mongering republicans, extends civil rights
Eisenhower continues progressivism, Vietnam involvement continues from Truman
Kennedy reduces taxes for wealthy
LBJ foolishly listens to war cries concerning domino
Carter elected, religion enters politics
Carter reduces taxes for wealthy and increases military spending
Clinton buys into financial nonsense, supporting NAFTA, regulatory and welfare reform

[midcan5]

yes...I think midcan was the one who didn't.....

consider some of these entries from the perspective of a chronic conservative hater like midcan.....

Eisenhower ignores right wing war mongering republicans, extends civil rights
Eisenhower continues progressivism, Vietnam involvement continues from Truman
Kennedy reduces taxes for wealthy
LBJ foolishly listens to war cries concerning domino
Carter elected, religion enters politics
Carter reduces taxes for wealthy and increases military spending
Clinton buys into financial nonsense, supporting NAFTA, regulatory and welfare reform

That's kinda impossible since I wrote it, but thanks for reading it. If it were a completely accurate - meaning if it covered the minutia and the usual key aspects covered in MSM and our politcal system - it would go on forever. My focus was the sea change from small democracy to a large democracy, large being industrial, corporate, scientific and all the baggage that change creates. Most history covers the aspects that power and prestige deign worth recording, it is why Howard Zinn is so hated by those who live their lives blind to reality.

This is great stuff for those interested in how we deceive ourselves. Trivers mp3 is worth the time. http://cdn.conversationsnetwork.org/...2005.10.22.mp3

http://www.amazon.com/Folly-Fools-Lo...=books&ie=UTF8

[midcan5]

It often seems the republicans of today are still fighting Franklin Delano Roosevelt. Roosevelt helped make America what it is today, and his achievements are still visible and still important to our national well being, excellent review below.

"Michael Hiltzik presents a history of the New Deal. The author examines the origins of Franklin D. Roosevelt's plans to confront the nation's economic depression and the President's relationships with his inner-circle of advisors, which ranged across the social spectrum."

Cspan video provides a brief but important review. http://www.booktv.org/Program/12826/...n+History.aspx

"The joy and moral stimulation of work no longer must be forgotten in the mad chase of evanescent profits, these dark days will be worth all they cost us if they teach us that our true destiny is not to be ministered unto but to minister to ourselves and our fellow men." Quote from link below

http://www.amazon.com/New-Deal-Moder...=books&ie=UTF8

[Rune]

So, Carter and Clinton weren't good for America. Will Obama change this trend?

Wut?

[Rune]

FDR masterfully fought WWII along with Churchill and Stalin LMAO.... tell us please how FDR masterfully fought WWII. That is a severe stretch by any sense of the imagination

We won didn't we?

[Rune]

FDR wins three terms and is ranked by most as the greatest modern period American president In all that you fail to mention that the Depression lasted for almost the entire time FDR was in office?

Proving what?

[Rune]

Total and complete bullshit on the second. Stagflation took effect under Carter.

Inflation was at 5.22% when Carter took office. High, but nowhere near the double digit levels Carter left to Reagan. http://inflationdata.com/inflation/i...inflation.aspx


Ford was doing so well, he failed to get eleceted.

[Rune]

Wrong. The Middle Class was substantially better off under Reagan than Carter.

Wrong. Just because you read it doesn't make it so.

That is the problem iwth the whole "history is written by the winner" scenario.

[Rune]

Reagan reduces taxes for wealthy - corporations and think tanks gain persuasive powers
Reagan or his administration realize their errors and raise taxes several times, including largest peace time tax

This is quite silly. Corporations and their execs have had great power in DC long before Reagan even stopped acting. See Kennedy, Rockefeller etc...

Huh? Doesn't even address the points.

[Rune]

Wrong. America became a debtor nation in 1973.

Thanks Tricky Dick (R)

Thanks for creating all those jobs (in China) too.

[Cancel 2018. 3]

Reagan reduces taxes for wealthy - corporations and think tanks gain persuasive powers
Reagan or his administration realize their errors and raise taxes several times, including largest peace time tax

This is quite silly. Corporations and their execs have had great power in DC long before Reagan even stopped acting. See Kennedy, Rockefeller etc...

Huh? Doesn't even address the points.

your ignorance is astounding. guess who controlled congress....

[Cancel 2018. 3]

Wrong. America became a debtor nation in 1973.

Thanks Tricky Dick (R)

Thanks for creating all those jobs (in China) too.

http://www.neumann.edu/academics/div...010/Whetts.pdf

educate yourself

[midcan5]

As I noted above - and proven by the empty attacks on him - the right is still fighting FDR's accomplishments and his work remains the most significant in terms of real goods returned to all American citizens. No republican has ever put forth a proposal to help all Americans. And yes I know Lincoln was a republican, at least in name.

I also love the way the right will give credit/blame to Congress when the economy is good/bad as a way of side stepping real thought. Consider our current bunch of useless self-centered ideologues as an example - can anyone really be serious that this bunch of children could get anything done except deny freedom to our soldiers, to women and to gays? It is only 'the few,' it seems, who consider the well being of the nation and very few of the good guys have been on the republican side of this fence, very very few.

I remember distinctly America being labeled a Debtor nation under Reagan, but as I review various sources online I get lots of smoke screens and economic jabberwocky. Consider "By the 1980s, the inevitable happened. As generations of accumulated wealth disappeared, a line was crossed. America now owed more to the rest of the world than the world owed to it. The United States had become a debtor nation, and it has continued to run up the tab in the decades since." http://www.fgmr.com/debtor-nation.html

Now who is right, this one I want to research in some history books as online the same BS is copied and copied and wrong much of the time.

Check this chart out. http://jimcgreevy.com/gvdc/Natl_Debt_Chart.html