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Thread: Truth, Part of the strategy

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    Quote Originally Posted by AnyOldIron View Post
    Umm I don't fully agree with that. Identical twins for example are not always the same. People are just born with different agression levels and such.

    Identical twins don't have the same experiences. No two individuals have had the same experiences, the same conditioning.
    Up thru the infant stage they pretty much do, and often turn out very different.
    I have a brother that is pretty much an exact opposite from me, and this started as infants per our parents.

    I believe we are born with certain charistics. The old nature vs nurture thing.

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    Well, I've got three battles on the go, but here in Blighty it's nearly 5pm and I'm going home to get nicely toasted and to molest the missus...

    Will continue these discussions on Monday...

    Have yourselves a good weekend chaps, and drink a beer for me!

    Tally Ho!
    Sometimes people don't want to hear the truth because they don't want their illusions destroyed.

    Friedrich Nietzsche

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    yeah I am cutting out early today too, in 5 minutes actually. Have to work on DST stuff this weekend.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AnyOldIron View Post
    If an organisation such as the Illuminati (if they exist) is producing the conditioning effect then it isn't the individual that is controlling the conditioning process.

    For example, an individual's perception of dogs. The perception is built up by contact with dogs. If the first contact with a dog is negative to the individual, then that person's perception of dogs will be negative. With each contact with dogs, the individual's perception will change.

    But the individual has no real control over the actions of the dogs that alter that perception. Ergo, the individual cannot control the manner in which they are conditioned. There are too many variables, as I said, an individual has no control over the actions of others or general circumstances.

    Humans possess will, but to describe that will as free is a total misnomer.
    It's free will all right, you just have your head up your rear.

    Individuals can program themselves. they can reduce the effects the programming society lays on us. they can realize their fear of dogs is irrational and change their conditioning. We are free. It's just not always easy to exercise free will, and sometimes great powers don't want us to, like the illuminati, for instance.

    You can't control a dog or your surroundings? You're just lame.
    Last edited by Hermes Thoth; 03-09-2007 at 04:53 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Damocles View Post
    They would not. It is an exercise in thought though as there would be no way to test such a theory. Two different people would be different because they would choose to react differently to circumstances. One child, for instance, would choose to turn right rather than left thus leading him back to his parents... Those little choices lead us to the greater choice later, that of whether to accept what we have become and understand what brought us there, or to just live with what we have become and believe that it was inevitable based on circumstances beyond our control.
    You are defining "circumstances" as something -- or a collection of somethings -- entirely external to the individual. This is an unrealistic scenario. Each thought and impulse of an individual results from external stimuli: the duality between internal and external worlds is intrinsically false.

    No two different individuals can ever experience exactly the same set of circumstances. It's physically impossible.
    "A revolution without dancing is a revolution not worth having."
    -- V

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    Quote Originally Posted by OrnotBitwise View Post
    You are defining "circumstances" as something -- or a collection of somethings -- entirely external to the individual. This is an unrealistic scenario. Each thought and impulse of an individual results from external stimuli: the duality between internal and external worlds is intrinsically false.

    No two different individuals can ever experience exactly the same set of circumstances. It's physically impossible.
    Hence my assertion that it could never be tested. But you ignore that and trudge on... oblivious to the fact that you simply repeated the first part of my statement in your eloquent, yet disjointed, reposte.

    It doesn't change my argument at all. Each decision you make lead up to those larger decisions later. They take away some options, add others. Each thing we do, what we think, how we react makes our environment it isn't a random group of circumstances made from nothing, it is made from the very choices that each of us make.

    The attempt to take responsibility for your actions away is a fault of humans that has been around probably since the first person. "It's not my fault!" has been heard throughout the ages, but there is never a less true statement uttered.

    What you do changes and limits future choices, each decision leading further onto a path where you reach one of those life-changing choices finding yourself limited in outcomes. We can most definitely change our habitual responses with solid introspection and a solid sense of responsibility.

    We can ask ourselves:

    What did I do to get myself here?

    Or we can ask:

    What happened that got me here?

    I prefer to ask what I did myself that ended in such a situation, to look back, to seek out those small choices. Not only for the bad, but also for the good. Sometimes you may want to return to such a path rather than avoid them.
    Excellence is an art won by training and habituation. We do not act rightly because we have virtue or excellence, but rather we have those because we have acted rightly. We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit.
    - -- Aristotle

    Believe nothing on the faith of traditions, even though they have been held in honor for many generations and in diverse places. Do not believe a thing because many people speak of it. Do not believe on the faith of the sages of the past. Do not believe what you yourself have imagined, persuading yourself that a God inspires you. Believe nothing on the sole authority of your masters and priests. After examination, believe what you yourself have tested and found to be reasonable, and conform your conduct thereto.
    - -- The Buddha

    It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
    - -- Aristotle

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