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Thread: Obama's Endgame~~~

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    Default Obama's Endgame~~~


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    Quote Originally Posted by Ice Dancer View Post

    Well he does claim to be affecting change faster than any president!

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    So lemme get this straight. 30 yrs of conservative ideology which includes 'deficits don't matter' and outsourcing jobs to their communist allies is now all Obama's fault?
    This is typical for Republicons to not take responsibility for their failures and to try to cast the blame on Dems, Mexicans, gays, or anyone else.

    This country is in the shape it's in because of YOU!
    War Is Peace
    Freedom Is Slavery
    Ignorance Is Strength

    George Orwell

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crashk View Post
    So lemme get this straight. 30 yrs of conservative ideology which includes 'deficits don't matter' and outsourcing jobs to their communist allies is now all Obama's fault?
    This is typical for Republicons to not take responsibility for their failures and to try to cast the blame on Dems, Mexicans, gays, or anyone else.

    This country is in the shape it's in because of YOU!
    LOL You hard core democrats are really a piece of work. Is it required to get prefrontal lobotomies these days, or is your ignorance a deliberate piece of massive self deception?

    Let's look at the biggest, most economically influential FTAs in existence:
    NAFTA - 1994
    SAFTA - 1995
    CEMAC - 1999
    These three yielded more outsourcing of jobs that all others combined, especially SAFTA. Where do you think all the jokes about India phone support comes from?

    Now, care to remind us who was in charge when these agreements were negotiated and signed?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Good Luck View Post
    LOL You hard core democrats are really a piece of work. Is it required to get prefrontal lobotomies these days, or is your ignorance a deliberate piece of massive self deception?

    Let's look at the biggest, most economically influential FTAs in existence:
    NAFTA - 1994
    SAFTA - 1995
    CEMAC - 1999
    These three yielded more outsourcing of jobs that all others combined, especially SAFTA. Where do you think all the jokes about India phone support comes from?

    Now, care to remind us who was in charge when these agreements were negotiated and signed?
    Excuse, who controlled Congress?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rana View Post
    Excuse, who controlled Congress?
    Excuse me, but we're not talking laws here. We are talking negotiated treaties, the scope of which falls primarily under the powers of the executive branch of the federal government. The Senate (not all of congress) only ratifies what was negotiated and promoted by the president. (see U.S. Constitution, Article II, section 2, paragraph 2.)

    Try learning how our government works before wading into who was in charge of what.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Good Luck View Post
    LOL You hard core democrats are really a piece of work. Is it required to get prefrontal lobotomies these days, or is your ignorance a deliberate piece of massive self deception?

    Let's look at the biggest, most economically influential FTAs in existence:
    NAFTA - 1994
    SAFTA - 1995
    CEMAC - 1999
    These three yielded more outsourcing of jobs that all others combined, especially SAFTA. Where do you think all the jokes about India phone support comes from?

    Now, care to remind us who was in charge when these agreements were negotiated and signed?
    What happens if Congress does not ratify the treaty?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rana View Post
    What happens if Congress does not ratify the treaty?
    Treaties

    Chapter 1: Treaties
    Chapter 2: Precedents, Negotiators, Bipartisanship
    Chapter 3: Senate Options
    Chapter 4: Executive Agreements, Treaty Termination, Status as Law
    Chapter 5: Rejected Treaties

    Treaties

    The Constitution gives the Senate the power to approve, by a two-thirds vote, treaties made by the executive branch.

    The Senate has rejected relatively few of the hundreds of treaties it has considered in its history. Many others, however, have died in committee or been withdrawn by the president rather than face defeat.

    Some presidents have found it helpful to include senators in negotiating treaties in order to help pave the way for later Senate approval.

    The requirement for a two-thirds vote ensures that a treaty will need bipartisan support to be approved.

    The Senate may also amend a treaty or adopt various changes, which may lead the other nation, or nations, to further negotiate the treaty.

    The president may also enter into executive agreements with foreign nations that are not subject to Senate approval.


    Were NAFTA and the others treaties that did not need Congressional approval? If not, then why all the debate over them?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crashk View Post
    So lemme get this straight. 30 yrs of conservative ideology which includes 'deficits don't matter' and outsourcing jobs to their communist allies is now all Obama's fault?
    This is typical for Republicons to not take responsibility for their failures and to try to cast the blame on Dems, Mexicans, gays, or anyone else.

    This country is in the shape it's in because of YOU!
    Not true.

    I hate the reps, but I'm not dumb enough to think the dems don't have a great bit of liability with all this. They suck big time.

    That being a fact, why don't you tell us why the dems are not responsible?
    Man knows no master save creating heaven,
    or those whom choice and common good ordain.


    Demacrat--Republican---------------------Center-------------------------------------------Libartarian
    Marxist, and little freedom--------------------------------------------------Anti-Marxist-Much Liberty


    "There are two ways to conquer and enslave a nation. . . One is by
    sword. . . The other is by debt.

    John Adams 1826

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rana View Post
    What happens if Congress does not ratify the treaty?
    Then it goes for renegotiation. But blaming the senate for ratifying is like blaming the president instead of congress for the laws that are passed. Quit trying to give dems a pass at the expense of blind partisan "it's all their fault" bullshit.

    Tell me, who is responsible for the repeal of Glass Steagall?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rana View Post
    Treaties

    Chapter 1: Treaties
    Chapter 2: Precedents, Negotiators, Bipartisanship
    Chapter 3: Senate Options
    Chapter 4: Executive Agreements, Treaty Termination, Status as Law
    Chapter 5: Rejected Treaties

    Treaties

    The Constitution gives the Senate the power to approve, by a two-thirds vote, treaties made by the executive branch.

    The Senate has rejected relatively few of the hundreds of treaties it has considered in its history. Many others, however, have died in committee or been withdrawn by the president rather than face defeat.

    Some presidents have found it helpful to include senators in negotiating treaties in order to help pave the way for later Senate approval.

    The requirement for a two-thirds vote ensures that a treaty will need bipartisan support to be approved.

    The Senate may also amend a treaty or adopt various changes, which may lead the other nation, or nations, to further negotiate the treaty.

    The president may also enter into executive agreements with foreign nations that are not subject to Senate approval.


    Were NAFTA and the others treaties that did not need Congressional approval? If not, then why all the debate over them?
    How about getting more information before making a complete fool of yourself?

    NAFTA passed 61-38 (1 absent)
    of the 61 yea votes, 27 (almost half) were democrats.

    SAFTA, while having the same import (if not more) was actually part of the SAARC summits and not a full-fledged trade treaty. It went into effect in 1995 without the need for senate approval under the executive agreement clause you, yourself pointed out.

    So much for trying to spin that one into "it's the republicans' fault"

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    The South Asian Association for Regional Cooperation (SAARC) is an organization of South Asian nations, founded in 1985...

    The Customs and Economic Union of Central Africa (or UDEAC from its name in French, Union Douanière et Économique de l’Afrique Centrale), established by the Brazzaville Treaty in 1966...it was officially superseded by CEMAC in June 1999 (through agreement from 1994). To date, CEMAC has not achieved its objective of creating a customs union.

    It's not which party did what. Clinton was Republicon lite and believes the same free market bullshit that Reagan and Bush I did. It's not which party - its the ideology behind outsourcing our ability to manufacture goods. I voted for Clinton once, when he signed Nafta/Gatt I realized he was a traitor.

    At least you admit we are in deep shit even if your conditioning won't let you see the truth.
    War Is Peace
    Freedom Is Slavery
    Ignorance Is Strength

    George Orwell

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crashk View Post
    The South Asian Association for Regional Cooperation (SAARC) is an organization of South Asian nations, founded in 1985...

    The Customs and Economic Union of Central Africa (or UDEAC from its name in French, Union Douanière et Économique de l’Afrique Centrale), established by the Brazzaville Treaty in 1966...it was officially superseded by CEMAC in June 1999 (through agreement from 1994). To date, CEMAC has not achieved its objective of creating a customs union.

    It's not which party did what. Clinton was Republicon lite and believes the same free market bullshit that Reagan and Bush I did. It's not which party - its the ideology behind outsourcing our ability to manufacture goods. I voted for Clinton once, when he signed Nafta/Gatt I realized he was a traitor.

    At least you admit we are in deep shit even if your conditioning won't let you see the truth.
    I agree with you about the free market bullshit and outsourcing our ability to manufacture goods. The American worker has really been raped.
    Man knows no master save creating heaven,
    or those whom choice and common good ordain.


    Demacrat--Republican---------------------Center-------------------------------------------Libartarian
    Marxist, and little freedom--------------------------------------------------Anti-Marxist-Much Liberty


    "There are two ways to conquer and enslave a nation. . . One is by
    sword. . . The other is by debt.

    John Adams 1826

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    Quote Originally Posted by usaloyal2theend View Post
    Well he does claim to be affecting change faster than any president!
    He's a total fail!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crashk View Post
    So lemme get this straight. 30 yrs of conservative ideology which includes 'deficits don't matter' and outsourcing jobs to their communist allies is now all Obama's fault?
    This is typical for Republicons to not take responsibility for their failures and to try to cast the blame on Dems, Mexicans, gays, or anyone else.

    This country is in the shape it's in because of YOU!
    Except we haven't had conservative ideology, just appeasement of the Democrat/ socialist Party by the GOP.

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