bye bye atheism!

[Socrtease]

That's the deists' view, which is incorrect. Think about it logically. How could God know an exact event 1000 years into the future when everything in the universe is connected? One small change at one point can change the course of the future. A butterfly flaps its wings...

So god is chained to the here and now. God is as powerless as you or I to know the future?

[DamnYankee]

So god is chained to the here and now. God is as powerless as you or I to know the future?

No. Obviously he has a general plan, perhaps with a few specifics, but free will can change that. There is no promise of success for mankind. People could really fuck things up if they want to.

[Good Luck]

Omniscience, including knowledge of the future, does not necessarily indicate planning for events to turn out that way. God created humankind in His image. That does not mean we look like God. (what does a being capable of existing outside the parameters of space-time "look" like?) It means He gave us the ability to freely choose between good and evil.

But what purpose of giving us the ability to choose between good and evil if He then protects us from anything evil? May as well make us automatons pre-programmed for good. That is why he put the tree of knowledge in the center of the Garden even knowing in advance what the outcome would be: because without the opportunity to choose, there is no purpose in creating us with the ability to choose.

Again, knowing the future does not necessarily mean planning the future. Any good parent can anticipate the actions of their children in a particular set of circumstances. Does that mean they PLAN for every thing their child chooses to do, or the natural consequences of those choices? As parents we guide our children according to age and ability to understand cause-effect. Younger children we guide more closely, deliberately limiting the scope of their choices in activity and behavior. As they get older, we loosen the apron strings, giving them more freedom and responsibility. And then we let them go on their own, hoping and praying that they continue to apply successfully the lessons we tried to instill in them.

Yes, God knew WWII and 9-11 were coming while He was still saying "Let there be light!" But that does not mean he PLANNED for it to happen that way. It was the free choice he gave to us that led to those and all other events, whether good, evil or neutral. And like a loving parent, He guided us. He directly interacted with Adam and Eve, even while giving them the choice of the Tree. Later he sent us the Prophets, and at given times directly interfered with events - all the while continuing to allow us to make our own choices. He made consequences for poor choices, and as parents we emulate that by making consequences for our children for breaking the rules we create.

And through it all, He loved us. A parent who punishes their child for making a wrong choice does not love them any less. In fact a parent who takes the time out to make rules, enforce them, AND dish out consequences when rules are broken are the parents most demonstrating their love for their children. And part of His love resulted in Him sending His Son to us, so that through the Christ, we may have perfect repentance for our sins, and through that, a path to everlasting life.

[Blackwater Lunchbreak]

Omniscience, including knowledge of the future, does not necessarily indicate planning for events to turn out that way. God created humankind in His image. That does not mean we look like God. (what does a being capable of existing outside the parameters of space-time "look" like?) It means He gave us the ability to freely choose between good and evil.

But what purpose of giving us the ability to choose between good and evil if He then protects us from anything evil? May as well make us automatons pre-programmed for good. That is why he put the tree of knowledge in the center of the Garden even knowing in advance what the outcome would be: because without the opportunity to choose, there is no purpose in creating us with the ability to choose.

Again, knowing the future does not necessarily mean planning the future. Any good parent can anticipate the actions of their children in a particular set of circumstances. Does that mean they PLAN for every thing their child chooses to do, or the natural consequences of those choices? As parents we guide our children according to age and ability to understand cause-effect. Younger children we guide more closely, deliberately limiting the scope of their choices in activity and behavior. As they get older, we loosen the apron strings, giving them more freedom and responsibility. And then we let them go on their own, hoping and praying that they continue to apply successfully the lessons we tried to instill in them.

Yes, God knew WWII and 9-11 were coming while He was still saying "Let there be light!" But that does not mean he PLANNED for it to happen that way. It was the free choice he gave to us that led to those and all other events, whether good, evil or neutral. And like a loving parent, He guided us. He directly interacted with Adam and Eve, even while giving them the choice of the Tree. Later he sent us the Prophets, and at given times directly interfered with events - all the while continuing to allow us to make our own choices. He made consequences for poor choices, and as parents we emulate that by making consequences for our children for breaking the rules we create.

And through it all, He loved us. A parent who punishes their child for making a wrong choice does not love them any less. In fact a parent who takes the time out to make rules, enforce them, AND dish out consequences when rules are broken are the parents most demonstrating their love for their children. And part of His love resulted in Him sending His Son to us, so that through the Christ, we may have perfect repentance for our sins, and through that, a path to everlasting life.

It's sad to see a decent mind like yours wasted on this trash.

[DamnYankee]

It's sad to see a decent mind like yours wasted on this trash.

Hey the shit's real man. You should try it.

[Minister of Truth]

It's sad to see a decent mind like yours wasted on this white trash.

I don't think anyone here wastes their mind on you.

[Damocles]

Well, I'm thoroughly convinced. I'll now convert to Paganism, because I know that I can't be an Atheist anymore because some dude posted his "last post ever"...

[Minister of Truth]

Well, I'm thoroughly convinced. I'll now convert to Paganism, because I know that I can't be an Atheist anymore because some dude posted his "last post ever"...

With lots of conviction, too!!

[Blackwater Lunchbreak]

I don't think anyone here wastes their mind on you.

Yeah. except you've nearly had a mental breakdown trying to refute me with your idiot elitist globalist neocon propaganda. Youre only fooling yourself, idjit.