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Thread: 'If Conservatism is the Ideology of Freedom...

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    Default 'If Conservatism is the Ideology of Freedom...

    ...Then I'm the Queen of England'

    By David Michael Green

    "I wish I had a nickel for every time a conservative told a lie in order to sell an ideology that would otherwise be hopelessly unappealing.

    But, then, what the hell would I do with ten kazillion, trillion, dollars? I wouldn't know how to spend that much loot.

    These lies are legend, and they're endlessly retold. Everything from the one about the liberal bias in the media, or the one about Ronald Reagan ending the Cold War, to the one about how the private sector is so much more efficient than the government. And how about Saddam's arsenal of WMD, eh? Or the tax cuts that weren't going to drive the federal government into deficit? Or remember when George Bush told us that the war in Iraq was over, before it had even really started? Or the bit about how global warming is just a great big conspiracy among those noted well-known cabalists, er ... climatology scientists?

    I'm only just getting started here, but you get the point. If you're a conservative you basically have two choices * lie or lose. 'Cause if you tell the truth, no one in his or her right mind would buy the garbage you're peddling.

    The list of lies is endless, but my personal favorite is the one about how conservatism is the ideology of freedom, and specifically freedom from an overweening, intrusive, liberty-stealing, nanny-state government.

    Sometimes when I hear that howler, I have to pinch myself to make sure I'm not off in some virtual reality world (like 'Liberty' University, or the Republican national convention) somewhere. Because, clearly, between me and the well-programmed fool mouthing these hopeless inanities, one of us is, that's for sure.

    But I'll tell you what, if conservatism is the ideology of freedom * then I'm the Queen of England. And, one thing you can be sure of is that I'm not the Queen of England. I don't even have the right parts and pieces, and the only crown I've ever worn was given to me forty years ago by some pimply-faced teenager working the cash register at Burger King. Somehow, I don't think that counts.

    Meanwhile, here's what I'd like to know:

    If conservatism is the ideology of freedom, how come they're the ones who fought against the American Revolution?

    If conservatism is the ideology of freedom, how come they're the ones who are always trying to take that freedom away from us, especially women and minorities? Why did they fight against the effort to end slavery, or to give women and minorities the vote, or to protect them from discrimination? Why are they still supporting efforts to disenfranchise minorities?"

    Rest here:

    http://www.counterpunch.com/green11242007.html

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    Looks like you're quite alone in your madness Sonny....

    Drink a pint of Drano and call us in the morning.
    Put blame where it belongs
    ATF decided it could not regulate bump stocks during the Obama administration.
    It that time," the NRA wrote in a statement. "The NRA believes that devices designed to allow semiautomatic rifles to function like fully-automatic rifles should be subject to additional regulations."
    The ATF and Obama admin. ignored the NRA recommendations.


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    Quote Originally Posted by midcan5 View Post
    ....
    If conservatism is the ideology of freedom, how come they're the ones who fought against the American Revolution?...


    Why not argue against the stated platform of the American Conservative movement instead of lying about our platform then arguing about the lie?

    Principles of the American Conservative Party
    Foundation:

    From this Foundation, all principles flow:

    * The individual is sovereign
    o We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

    * Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just limited powers from the consent of the governed
    o "We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity do ordain and establish the Constitution for the United States of America." What does this mean? Simply put, that the formation of a legitimate government can only occur when the citizens themselves choose to surrender a portion of their inherent authority. The citizens may chose to give, but the government cannot chose to take (or keep) authority against the wishes of its citizenry.
    http://www.theamericanconservatives....ound&Itemid=53

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    LOL - this is why rep points are kinda silly. One person gives me a positive and one a negative. Seems normal huh!

    But notice no one can counter the gentleman's argument.

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    Quote Originally Posted by midcan5 View Post
    LOL - this is why rep points are kinda silly. One person gives me a positive and one a negative. Seems normal huh!

    But notice no one can counter the gentleman's argument.
    The argument was countered in post 3, which you casually ignore, so you get a neg rep from post 5.

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    The one paragraph that I want someone to answer is "Why, if we believe so much in freedom, do we prop up brutal dictatorships that deny their own people freedom and even torture and kill them?" But it is not only the conservatives, every president since the cold war began has sent money and arms to the likes of Pinochet, Samoza, the Shah, Saddam etc. I was always led to believe that it was the Soviet Union that embrace the idea of the ends justifyiing the means.

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    We gave money to Saddam because he was fighting our enemies at the time: Iran and the Soviets. During WW2 we sided with Russia. Both were done for pragmatism.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Man View Post
    We gave money to Saddam because he was fighting our enemies at the time: Iran and the Soviets. During WW2 we sided with Russia. Both were done for pragmatism.
    Yeah, the Kurds were a real problem for us, it's a good thing Saddam took the poison gas we sold him and gassed those evil Kurds.
    What kind of country have we become?

    One in which federal prosecutors can take “evidence” before a “grand jury,”

    and that grand jury can “vote to indict” a former president for 91 alleged “crimes”?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZappasGuitar View Post
    Yeah, the Kurds were a real problem for us, it's a good thing Saddam took the poison gas we sold him and gassed those evil Kurds.
    Our policy with Saddam changed considerably after he screwed us like that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Man View Post
    Our policy with Saddam changed considerably after he screwed us like that.
    I am reminded of the Parable of the Snake. Ever heard of it?

    What the hell did our leaders THINK he'd do?

    When we make alliances with snakes like Saddam because it might give us some tactical advantage, it destroys our credibility with the rest of the world.
    What kind of country have we become?

    One in which federal prosecutors can take “evidence” before a “grand jury,”

    and that grand jury can “vote to indict” a former president for 91 alleged “crimes”?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Man View Post
    Our policy with Saddam changed considerably after he screwed us like that.
    OF COURSE it did!

    After all, we don't want the rest of the world reminded from time to time that WE sold Saddam the gas he used to kill all those innocent people.
    What kind of country have we become?

    One in which federal prosecutors can take “evidence” before a “grand jury,”

    and that grand jury can “vote to indict” a former president for 91 alleged “crimes”?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZappasGuitar View Post
    OF COURSE it did!

    After all, we don't want the rest of the world reminded from time to time that WE sold Saddam the gas he used to kill all those innocent people.
    We didn't tell him to gas innocent people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Man View Post
    The argument was countered in post 3, which you casually ignore, so you get a neg rep from post 5.

    Thanks for the negative rep, you fascists never change.

    Saying something don't make it so. Are you twelve? If so, I understand, if not you need to counter the argument as you guys are not only the negative rep queens, but the deniers of many freedoms noted in article. Always have been, always will be. Just the other day you cons were arguing that wal-mart had a right to fire a medical marijuana smoker. But that is consistent with your fascist take on business power. Our newly fascist scotus just did the same.
    Wanna make America great, buy American owned, made in the USA, we do. AF Veteran, INFJ-A, I am not PC.

    "I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short one: 'O Lord make my enemies ridiculous.' And God granted it." Voltaire

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    Quote Originally Posted by Socrtease View Post
    The one paragraph that I want someone to answer is "Why, if we believe so much in freedom, do we prop up brutal dictatorships that deny their own people freedom and even torture and kill them?" But it is not only the conservatives, every president since the cold war began has sent money and arms to the likes of Pinochet, Samoza, the Shah, Saddam etc. I was always led to believe that it was the Soviet Union that embrace the idea of the ends justifyiing the means.
    Agreed. And consider our support of Israel as well. It is a cowboy mindset that will not change quickly if ever. There must always be bad guys and good guys and whether they are bad or good is not relevant.


    "The savior who wants to turn men into angels is as much a hater of human nature as the totalitarian despot who wants to turn them into puppets." Eric Hoffer

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