Page 3 of 42 FirstFirst 123456713 ... LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 625

Thread: A good example of why southern conservatives are not trusted.

  1. #31 | Top
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    62,856
    Thanks
    3,734
    Thanked 20,360 Times in 14,088 Posts
    Groans
    2
    Groaned 649 Times in 616 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ZappasGuitar View Post
    Ah yes, those magnanimous Republicans and their generosity! Wanting the poor in America to go to the school of their choice!

    Except...

    What they don't tell you is...all those elite private schools with the good teachers? They won't take kids with poor academic scores! All those elitist private schools will find one reason or another to weed out those they don't really want.

    I found one wonderful little private school here in H-town...cream of the crop as far as private schools go...AAAAAAAND they only want $17,500.00 per year to go there. You think that "voucher" you're going to get if school choice is ever passed will be big enough to cover that admission fee?

    You want school choice cawacko? Then let's set it up where the POOREST get to choose first when they choose which school they wish to attend.

    Otherwise, the rich will still get to go to all the good schools, and the poor will still have to settle for less.
    How does it work now? If you have money you can move to a city with good public schools or you can send your kid to private school. If you don't have money you are forced to send your kid to your local (probably failing) public school.

    The idea is twofold in creating some form of competition to incentivize/force schools to get better. Additionally it offers an opportunity to those who otherwise wouldn't have one. The private school on my street three blocks down in SF costs $28k a year. That's for 1st grade. WTF? How many parents can afford to spend $28k on their kids 1st grade education? Well no one is getting a $28k voucher that's for sure.

    The issue Zap isn't about Republican vs. Democrat. It's how do we best serve these kids that are stuck in failing schools. My argument, along with many other people, is that the status quo isn't working. Changes need to be made to the system.

  2. #32 | Top
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    8,493
    Thanks
    711
    Thanked 520 Times in 401 Posts
    Groans
    51
    Groaned 46 Times in 43 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Superfreak View Post
    So why should I have to pony up to send your kids to public school? The money is being spent one way or another. If the government is taking tax dollars to fund a kids education... then let the parents tell the government where their kids funding should be sent. If the government spends $8k per student per year (not sure what the real number is... this is just an example) then that $8k should go towards public or private depending on the parents choice.
    Education based on school performance and choice is the best formula for success. In an underperforming public school that shows no improvement from year to year there can be no better solution for parents and fr their kids than to have some sort of power. School choice empowers families to get the best education possible for their kids. Competition between all options creates an environment where the failing schools will fold and the exceptional ones will thrive; this translates into exceptional opportunities for learners!

  3. #33 | Top
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    I might be movin to Montana
    Posts
    24,947
    Thanks
    7,072
    Thanked 10,611 Times in 7,328 Posts
    Groans
    68
    Groaned 1,966 Times in 1,782 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cawacko View Post
    How does it work now? If you have money you can move to a city with good public schools or you can send your kid to private school. If you don't have money you are forced to send your kid to your local (probably failing) public school.

    The idea is twofold in creating some form of competition to incentivize/force schools to get better. Additionally it offers an opportunity to those who otherwise wouldn't have one. The private school on my street three blocks down in SF costs $28k a year. That's for 1st grade. WTF? How many parents can afford to spend $28k on their kids 1st grade education? Well no one is getting a $28k voucher that's for sure.

    The issue Zap isn't about Republican vs. Democrat. It's how do we best serve these kids that are stuck in failing schools. My argument, along with many other people, is that the status quo isn't working. Changes need to be made to the system.
    And I am saying you won't find the well to do pushing for any real change that might help the less fortunate until you put them into the same boat with the poor.

    If you want school choice, then there need to be some "no-refusal" clauses in their charters so they don't just take the kids with the richest parents. Let the poorest kids from the worst school districts step to the front of the line for once and when the rich have to wait and settle for what's left after all the "good" schools are full, THEN you'll see some change.

  4. #34 | Top
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Mid-Atlantic State
    Posts
    26,917
    Thanks
    3,256
    Thanked 5,373 Times in 4,319 Posts
    Groans
    1,505
    Groaned 2,440 Times in 2,029 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ZappasGuitar View Post
    And I am saying you won't find the well to do pushing for any real change that might help the less fortunate until you put them into the same boat with the poor.

    If you want school choice, then there need to be some "no-refusal" clauses in their charters so they don't just take the kids with the richest parents. Let the poorest kids from the worst school districts step to the front of the line for once and when the rich have to wait and settle for what's left after all the "good" schools are full, THEN you'll see some change.
    You really talk silly..do you think Harvard, Yale and Princeton HAVE to accept some of the brainless just for the sake "fairness" ???

    Do you suggest that private schools accept some gang members, druggies, and assholes in general just because they happen to be poor, or for some other unrelated reason to satisfy your social engineering schemes........?

    Vouchers will HELP some of those that can't afford higher costs of private school....helping some is better than helping none....

    If the 17,000 is too high for you, find one within your means....

    It might not be the well to do pushing for any real change that might help the less fortunate, but it IS THE CONSERVATIVES pushing for the change...
    Put blame where it belongs
    ATF decided it could not regulate bump stocks during the Obama administration.
    It that time," the NRA wrote in a statement. "The NRA believes that devices designed to allow semiautomatic rifles to function like fully-automatic rifles should be subject to additional regulations."
    The ATF and Obama admin. ignored the NRA recommendations.


  5. #35 | Top
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Mid-Atlantic State
    Posts
    26,917
    Thanks
    3,256
    Thanked 5,373 Times in 4,319 Posts
    Groans
    1,505
    Groaned 2,440 Times in 2,029 Posts

    Default

    http://articles.latimes.com/2009/mar.../na-vouchers11

    Washington Dc
    Spending plan kills funding for Washington school vouchers
    Barring renewal, 1,700 students could be back in the D.C. public education system in the near future.
    March 11, 2009*James Oliphant

    WASHINGTON — Congress is poised to do away with one of former President George W. Bush's signature initiatives in education: the taxpayer-funded vouchers that enable students from low-income families in the District of Columbia to attend private schools.

    About 1,700 children in kindergarten through 12th grade receive the $7,500 annual scholarships. Four times as many apply.
    -------
    "It would be really shocking to see 1,700 kids removed from the best schools they have ever known," said Andrew Campanella, a spokesman for the Alliance for School Choice, a pro-voucher group.

    The drama is being watched by advocates of the so-called school choice movement across the country.

    The Washington program, the only voucher system in the country that uses federal funds, was enacted in 2004 by the Republican-controlled Congress, with some Democratic support.

    Its advocates say it gives children in troubled school districts such as Washington's an opportunity to obtain a higher-quality education. Urban school districts in New Orleans, Milwaukee and Cleveland have similar programs that use state money.
    ================================================== ====
    In case you need some Dem talking points, here they are....

    Detractors contend that the program subsidizes private or religious schools that, unlike public school districts, are not held accountable. And they say vouchers drain taxpayer money from public schools that truly need it, to private schools already flush from high tuitions. They also say there is no proof that students perform better in their new schools.
    Put blame where it belongs
    ATF decided it could not regulate bump stocks during the Obama administration.
    It that time," the NRA wrote in a statement. "The NRA believes that devices designed to allow semiautomatic rifles to function like fully-automatic rifles should be subject to additional regulations."
    The ATF and Obama admin. ignored the NRA recommendations.


  6. #36 | Top
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    134,846
    Thanks
    13,245
    Thanked 40,785 Times in 32,151 Posts
    Groans
    3,661
    Groaned 2,865 Times in 2,752 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mott the Hoople View Post
    OK fine, lets get rid of our public education system and see how well that works! LOL
    nice strawman.......don't have to give up the public system......some parents may desire their children attend their local public school.....(they don't all suck)......but if the local schools suck and NOBODY wants to send their kids there, maybe it's time to get rid of it.....
    Last edited by PostmodernProphet; 01-25-2010 at 05:40 PM.
    Isaiah 6:5
    “Woe to me!” I cried. “I am ruined! For I am a man of unclean lips, and I live among a people of unclean lips, and my eyes have seen the King, the Lord Almighty.”

  7. #37 | Top
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    8,493
    Thanks
    711
    Thanked 520 Times in 401 Posts
    Groans
    51
    Groaned 46 Times in 43 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bravo View Post
    You really talk silly..do you think Harvard, Yale and Princeton HAVE to accept some of the brainless just for the sake "fairness" ???

    Do you suggest that private schools accept some gang members, druggies, and assholes in general just because they happen to be poor, or for some other unrelated reason to satisfy your social engineering schemes........?

    Vouchers will HELP some of those that can't afford higher costs of private school....helping some is better than helping none....

    If the 17,000 is too high for you, find one within your means....

    It might not be the well to do pushing for any real change that might help the less fortunate, but it IS THE CONSERVATIVES pushing for the change...

    The average cost of private education for primary and secondary schools ranges between 25-45 hundred dollars a year. There are exclusive schools that are cost prohibitive, but they are not the average private school nor do they provide for a better education necessarily.

  8. #38 | Top
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Columbus, Ohio
    Posts
    55,018
    Thanks
    15,249
    Thanked 19,001 Times in 13,040 Posts
    Groans
    307
    Groaned 1,147 Times in 1,092 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ice Dancer View Post
    Education based on school performance and choice is the best formula for success. In an underperforming public school that shows no improvement from year to year there can be no better solution for parents and fr their kids than to have some sort of power. School choice empowers families to get the best education possible for their kids. Competition between all options creates an environment where the failing schools will fold and the exceptional ones will thrive; this translates into exceptional opportunities for learners!
    Yea, lay that bullshit on someone else. I've seen first hand how that line of bullshit devastated the public school systems in both South Carolina and Arkansas. If you want to cut your nose off to spite your face and fund other peoples private education then do it with your money and not mine.

    If you implement those ideas the same thing will happen in your State that happened in those two. The children of affluent parents will be the only ones who have access to a quality education and it will subsidized by the poor and working people who won't have access to those private schools and who will be, to put it bluntly, fucked cause their grossly underfunded public schools will fail due to a political self full filling prophecy which systematically starves them of the resources they need to succeed.
    You're Never Alone With A Schizophrenic!

  9. #39 | Top
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    62,856
    Thanks
    3,734
    Thanked 20,360 Times in 14,088 Posts
    Groans
    2
    Groaned 649 Times in 616 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mott the Hoople View Post
    Yea, lay that bullshit on someone else. I've seen first hand how that line of bullshit devastated the public school systems in both South Carolina and Arkansas. If you want to cut your nose off to spite your face and fund other peoples private education then do it with your money and not mine.

    If you implement those ideas the same thing will happen in your State that happened in those two. The children of affluent parents will be the only ones who have access to a quality education and it will subsidized by the poor and working people who won't have access to those private schools and who will be, to put it bluntly, fucked cause their grossly underfunded public schools will fail due to a political self full filling prophecy which systematically starves them of the resources they need to succeed.
    What do we have now? Want to come check out my local school systems in Oakland or San Francisco?

    The idea behind school choice and vouchers is not to benefit financially those who don't need it. It is to benefit those who have no other options. And its not about sending everyone to private schools. It's about making the overall education system better and more competitive.

  10. #40 | Top
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    8,493
    Thanks
    711
    Thanked 520 Times in 401 Posts
    Groans
    51
    Groaned 46 Times in 43 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mott the Hoople View Post
    Yea, lay that bullshit on someone else. I've seen first hand how that line of bullshit devastated the public school systems in both South Carolina and Arkansas. If you want to cut your nose off to spite your face and fund other peoples private education then do it with your money and not mine.

    If you implement those ideas the same thing will happen in your State that happened in those two. The children of affluent parents will be the only ones who have access to a quality education and it will subsidized by the poor and working people who won't have access to those private schools and who will be, to put it bluntly, fucked cause their grossly underfunded public schools will fail due to a political self full filling prophecy which systematically starves them of the resources they need to succeed.
    First off it isn't BS and you have no proof that it is. Vouchers in Florida and DC have been widely embraced and successful, and what I have read about SC they are likewise enjoying the choices they have. Charter schools too have enjoyed much success in the states that allow them. The only real choice though, is to creat a federal voucher system that would truly open the market so that parents could also take advantage of programs like online distance learning. The stupid lame argument of "poor kids" has absolutely NO basis in fact! In DC especially, you had to be fucking poor to participate, wbtw, I think is total BS! As to draining funds from failing public schools? Again, too fucking bad...let 'em fail, They don't deserve our kids or the money that follows them!

    And I'd like nothing better than to keep my fucking money and spend it on private education. Instead I have ignorant people like you who keep throwing everyone's money, including mine, at the disaster we call public education which costs MUCH more per student than private education on average!

  11. #41 | Top
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    39,053
    Thanks
    3,463
    Thanked 1,324 Times in 1,188 Posts
    Groans
    1,184
    Groaned 693 Times in 631 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mott the Hoople View Post
    To them poor people are stray animals that shouldn't be fed.
    http://www.charlotteobserver.com/bre...y/1199662.html

    His correlation of the low test scores of schools where the most students receive free or reduced price lunches is particularly aggregeous, not to mention just plain factually wrong and heartless. I wonder if he stopped to consider that the poor have less access to educational resources and that could just possibly be the reason for those low test scores and when you also consider that in South Carolina the vast majority of poor are African Americans then his comments border on the pathetically racist.

    This magnifies the caution political analyst gave to Republicans after the Brown election. The American public will not stand for this kind of hateful, misanthropic reactionary behavior from conservative politicians.
    The fact is Mott, that when you subsidize something you get more of it, and that includes the poor. So it's really bleeding heart liberals like you who are to blame for the majority of poor folk. Then you want to use my money to "fix" the problem, not your own.

  12. #42 | Top
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    I might be movin to Montana
    Posts
    24,947
    Thanks
    7,072
    Thanked 10,611 Times in 7,328 Posts
    Groans
    68
    Groaned 1,966 Times in 1,782 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ice Dancer View Post
    The average cost of private education for primary and secondary schools ranges between 25-45 hundred dollars a year. There are exclusive schools that are cost prohibitive, but they are not the average private school nor do they provide for a better education necessarily.

    You publish numbers from a DECADE ago, and don't expect to get called on it?

    Those numbers you posted were from 2000, and I bet EVEN YOU would have a hard time trying to convince anyone that the price of a private education hasn't gone up one dime in that time.

    Come back with some accurate figures and we'll talk some more...
    What kind of country have we become?

    One in which federal prosecutors can take “evidence” before a “grand jury,”

    and that grand jury can “vote to indict” a former president for 91 alleged “crimes”?

  13. #43 | Top
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    I might be movin to Montana
    Posts
    24,947
    Thanks
    7,072
    Thanked 10,611 Times in 7,328 Posts
    Groans
    68
    Groaned 1,966 Times in 1,782 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cawacko View Post
    What do we have now? Want to come check out my local school systems in Oakland or San Francisco?

    The idea behind school choice and vouchers is not to benefit financially those who don't need it. It is to benefit those who have no other options. And its not about sending everyone to private schools. It's about making the overall education system better and more competitive.
    Alrightie then. Let's cut 50% from the budget for education and give it to people to send their kids to private schools.

    Now...what happens to those who can't afford private schools and who have to go to a public school operating on a budget of 50% of what they had...

    What happens to them? Would it better or worse for them than what they have now?
    What kind of country have we become?

    One in which federal prosecutors can take “evidence” before a “grand jury,”

    and that grand jury can “vote to indict” a former president for 91 alleged “crimes”?

  14. #44 | Top
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    62,856
    Thanks
    3,734
    Thanked 20,360 Times in 14,088 Posts
    Groans
    2
    Groaned 649 Times in 616 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ZappasGuitar View Post
    Alrightie then. Let's cut 50% from the budget for education and give it to people to send their kids to private schools.

    Now...what happens to those who can't afford private schools and who have to go to a public school operating on a budget of 50% of what they had...

    What happens to them? Would it better or worse for them than what they have now?
    Again, it's not just about trying to send kids to private school. For example one good thing that is occuring is more charter schools are coming on line. Those schools have a little more autonomy than regular public schools. Zap, it's about providing options and alternatives and not having public schools be a complete monopoly where there is no incentive for them to change and improve.

    Your example above wouldn't happen but sadly I'd almost answer it by saying that would be a good thing because at least half the kids would have a chance at success instead of almost none of them like now.

  15. #45 | Top
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    I might be movin to Montana
    Posts
    24,947
    Thanks
    7,072
    Thanked 10,611 Times in 7,328 Posts
    Groans
    68
    Groaned 1,966 Times in 1,782 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cawacko View Post
    Again, it's not just about trying to send kids to private school. For example one good thing that is occuring is more charter schools are coming on line. Those schools have a little more autonomy than regular public schools. Zap, it's about providing options and alternatives and not having public schools be a complete monopoly where there is no incentive for them to change and improve.

    Your example above wouldn't happen but sadly I'd almost answer it by saying that would be a good thing because at least half the kids would have a chance at success instead of almost none of them like now.

    Charter schools?

    We get them here in Houston. They are just as likely to be filled with corruption and fraud as any "public school", some even moreso because they ARE autonomous.
    What kind of country have we become?

    One in which federal prosecutors can take “evidence” before a “grand jury,”

    and that grand jury can “vote to indict” a former president for 91 alleged “crimes”?

Similar Threads

  1. Smarter than you; Southern Man, Good Luck…
    By flaja in forum General Politics Forum
    Replies: 36
    Last Post: 07-28-2009, 10:25 AM
  2. Those for your own good conservatives..
    By uscitizen in forum Current Events Forum
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: 02-05-2009, 01:10 AM
  3. The Clintons are at it again and cannot be trusted
    By blackascoal in forum Current Events Forum
    Replies: 54
    Last Post: 06-04-2008, 01:43 PM
  4. Southern Man
    By ib1yysguy in forum Current Events Forum
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 01-10-2008, 08:08 PM
  5. How Come Southern Democrats are Just as Bad as Southern Republicans?
    By CanadianKid in forum Current Events Forum
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 11-27-2007, 06:28 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Rules

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •