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Thread: A Conservative Wakes Up

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    Quote Originally Posted by midcan5 View Post
    For discussion - Thought Experiment #1 (Try to stay away from slogans and labels.)

    A few may be familiar with my nutshells, in them I tried to isolate the characteristics of a particular ideology. This time you decide, but remember this is a thought experiment and the premise is not debatable.

    One day a conservative wakes up from a coma in a world unlike her past world. In this world equality trumps personal freedom. The political structure could be defined as a constitutional cooperative in which decisions are made democratically and an elected court settled issues that any average citizen or minority group could disagree on.

    The overall philosophical Weltanschauung means no one is super rich and no one poor. The society varies but it excludes extremes. All receive a stipend, so all live securely. All fundamental services are free, these include transportation, education, and healthcare. Work is private, state, and federal but all work is supportive of the society and not just the person or corporation, above average profits are returned to the society. The business person, entrepreneur, artist, does enjoy prestige and a higher standard of living.

    The conservatives finds this odd and uncharacteristic but soon grows accustom to the society, she receives a stipend, finishes her education, and finds work in a private industry.

    One day the conservative discovers there is another nation in which personal freedom trumps equality. In this place extremes of all kinds exist and government and law exist to defend or to protect power. This nation is basically considered a libertarian capitalistic republic. In this society no stipend system exists and no service is free. While the nations are isolated from each other, each feels, and their media supports their political structure as the best political structure. Movement between nations is possible as both at a base level respect personal freedom.

    What does the conservative do and why? Does she stay or leave for a nation that allows more economic freedoms, more profit, and is similar to her core ideological position up to her coma? Or does she change and stay, why?
    Granted, your nutshells usually suck, this one at least is interesting. Today, neocons expect blind obedience, so most "conservatives" would stay home, and maybe try to start a war with the free nation.

    This society fails, however, because it values equality above liberty. Also, as Belme fails to realize, Natural Rights call upon a government to provide security so that every citizen can strive to maintain their own life, liberty, and property. While Jefferson put a twist on the third right in the Declaration, the 14th Amendment correctly cites Natural Rights under the Due Process Clause.

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    Threedee, I don't follow. Does she stay or go and why.

    Seems I have the cons stumped? No real replies!

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    Quote Originally Posted by midcan5 View Post
    Threedee, I don't follow. Does she stay or go and why.

    Seems I have the cons stumped? No real replies!
    Your imaginary scenario is unrealistic and neither place is a desirable place to live as you describe it.....



    a nation in which personal freedom trumps equality.

    We all want and demand equality ...equality of treatment under the law, meaning no "special" treatment for some particular group...as in what is perceived as "homosexual rights" or "affirmative action" or "corporate welfare" or "the rich getting special legal attention", etc....

    In this place extremes of all kinds exist and government and law exist to defend or to protect power.

    No one desires "extremes of all kinds"...that why we have laws and standards of social behavior.....something the left undermines at every level...and "laws to protect power" ?...as in 500 and some odd elected assholes in Washington DC holding 350 million of us in a type of bondage.......

    no service is free

    no service is free? No service is ever "free"....someone, somewhere is paying for and providing what you think is free.....
    Last edited by NOVA; 09-18-2009 at 08:52 PM.
    Put blame where it belongs
    ATF decided it could not regulate bump stocks during the Obama administration.
    It that time," the NRA wrote in a statement. "The NRA believes that devices designed to allow semiautomatic rifles to function like fully-automatic rifles should be subject to additional regulations."
    The ATF and Obama admin. ignored the NRA recommendations.


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    Quote Originally Posted by PostmodernProphet View Post
    and yet, the one country in the world that comes the closest to it, is still the most successful country in the world.....the US......
    Smallish government?

    I think not, I suspect Iceland or somesuch place would be closer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Whomever View Post
    Smallish government?

    I think not, I suspect Iceland or somesuch place would be closer.
    why, because it's a smaller country?....why not Lichtenstein?.....what if a country had a population of 100, but 99% of them worked for the government?.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by PostmodernProphet View Post
    really?......you believe happiness is better pursued in the EU?.....by what standard?.....are people happier in Portugal than they are in Kansas?......is life merrier in Munich than it is in Minneapolis?......
    The people of those countries think so in polls, who's a better judge? The Danes are the happiest people on Earth, followed by several others ahead of the US.
    Now you can answer my question, IF you can.

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    Quote Originally Posted by belme1201 View Post
    The people of those countries think so in polls, who's a better judge? The Danes are the happiest people on Earth, followed by several others ahead of the US.
    Now you can answer my question, IF you can.
    how am I supposed to explain why Europeans are wrong about the country they live in?......I guess the Danes who answered the polls are the happiest people on earth because they haven't published any cartoons about Mohammad and they know they aren't on some Muslim's hit list.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by PostmodernProphet View Post
    how am I supposed to explain why Europeans are wrong about the country they live in?......I guess the Danes who answered the polls are the happiest people on earth because they haven't published any cartoons about Mohammad and they know they aren't on some Muslim's hit list.....
    Let me try again to simplify it even for you. My question was:
    "Where would we be if military spending was at the same level as other 'developed' countries and we were able to spend on problems within our borders." ....answer it IF you can.
    The answer to that question is the reason 23 countries are ahead of the US in the happiness of its citizens. (University of Michigan survey July, 2008.)
    There is no ersatz scholar aboard here or anywhere else that can tell me the Founding Fathers had the entire world with no borders in mind when addressing civil defense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by midcan5 View Post
    Threedee, I don't follow. Does she stay or go and why.

    Seems I have the cons stumped? No real replies!
    You idiot. I responded with my examples, and Bravo hit you right between the eyes with it.
    Quote Originally Posted by wanderingbear View Post
    In the end who doesn't want freedom from responsibility?
    Quote Originally Posted by poet View Post
    They better convict Zimmy, or I may riot, and break up some shit.
    Quote Originally Posted by poet View Post
    I have always fantasized about murdering Massa while he slept.
    Quote Originally Posted by Topspin View Post
    Jefferson was a racist piece of dogshit as were most founding fathers.
    Quote Originally Posted by Howey View Post
    I just bought a nice bottle of wine that DY's taxes paid for.
    Quote Originally Posted by blackascoal View Post
    ...you think we're just niggers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by belme1201 View Post
    Let me try again to simplify it even for you. My question was:
    "Where would we be if military spending was at the same level as other 'developed' countries and we were able to spend on problems within our borders." ....answer it IF you can.
    The answer to that question is the reason 23 countries are ahead of the US in the happiness of its citizens. (University of Michigan survey July, 2008.)
    There is no ersatz scholar aboard here or anywhere else that can tell me the Founding Fathers had the entire world with no borders in mind when addressing civil defense.
    how far back do you want to go.......if we hadn't had the military spending in the 40s we'd be part of the Nazi Empire......if we hadn't had it through the 70s we would likely be part of the Soviet Union.....as would those other "developed" countries you harken to......

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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Man View Post
    You idiot. I responded with my examples, and Bravo hit you right between the eyes with it.
    Neither you nor Bravo answered the question, Bravo made up the world based on his personal prejudices and you didn't answer at all?

    Post Modern Prophet - you need to change your name to 'Old Fashioned Reactionary' as not one thing you have written so far is not simply reactionary crapola.

    The situation is a given, speculative nonsense is not allowed, does she go or stay and why.

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    Quote Originally Posted by T&A View Post
    If she is a neocon, she stays. If she is a paleocon, she goes to freedeom. Kapish?
    But she is a modern conservative similar to you, does she go or stay and why would help.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PostmodernProphet View Post
    how far back do you want to go.......if we hadn't had the military spending in the 40s we'd be part of the Nazi Empire......if we hadn't had it through the 70s we would likely be part of the Soviet Union.....as would those other "developed" countries you harken to......
    .......where the inhabitants are happier than here in the States. Maybe it's time to mind our own business and treasure before attempting to spread our lower level of happiness everywhere else to oppose minor Boogymen with big mouths. You might even be due a tax break as a result! Now, that's happiness!
    There are just wars and stupid wars, take your pick as to which is which. Everybody with brains knew and said the Soviets were more bluster than substance, the governments of both countries used each other for self enrichment as well as self engrandisement.

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    Quote Originally Posted by belme1201 View Post
    There are just wars and stupid wars
    I like my pithy saying better....there are just conservatives and stupid liberals.....

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