A Conservative Wakes Up

[midcan5]

For discussion - Thought Experiment #1 (Try to stay away from slogans and labels.)

A few may be familiar with my nutshells, in them I tried to isolate the characteristics of a particular ideology. This time you decide, but remember this is a thought experiment and the premise is not debatable.

One day a conservative wakes up from a coma in a world unlike her past world. In this world equality trumps personal freedom. The political structure could be defined as a constitutional cooperative in which decisions are made democratically and an elected court settled issues that any average citizen or minority group could disagree on.

The overall philosophical Weltanschauung means no one is super rich and no one poor. The society varies but it excludes extremes. All receive a stipend, so all live securely. All fundamental services are free, these include transportation, education, and healthcare. Work is private, state, and federal but all work is supportive of the society and not just the person or corporation, above average profits are returned to the society. The business person, entrepreneur, artist, does enjoy prestige and a higher standard of living.

The conservatives finds this odd and uncharacteristic but soon grows accustom to the society, she receives a stipend, finishes her education, and finds work in a private industry.

One day the conservative discovers there is another nation in which personal freedom trumps equality. In this place extremes of all kinds exist and government and law exist to defend or to protect power. This nation is basically considered a libertarian capitalistic republic. In this society no stipend system exists and no service is free. While the nations are isolated from each other, each feels, and their media supports their political structure as the best political structure. Movement between nations is possible as both at a base level respect personal freedom.

What does the conservative do and why? Does she stay or leave for a nation that allows more economic freedoms, more profit, and is similar to her core ideological position up to her coma? Or does she change and stay, why?

[Cypress]

The problem is that liberals can cite dozens of examples of prosperous and successful social democratic countries based on the premise of a welfare state, income equity, and egalitarianism.

Cons in contrast cannot, and never have, been able to cite a real-world example of a successful country that employs their ideological rheortic; aka unfettered free markets, a privately-run heathcare and education systems, and a smallish government that "gets out of the way".


So the only way to relate this to the real world, is asking would a Con leave a country like Sweden or Canada....for what exactly? Somalia or Afghanistan?

[PostmodernProphet]

Cons in contrast cannot, and never have, been able to cite a real-world example of a successful country that employs their ideological rheortic; aka unfettered free markets, a privately-run heathcare and education systems, and a smallish government that "gets out of the way".

and yet, the one country in the world that comes the closest to it, is still the most successful country in the world.....the US......

[Cypress]

and yet, the one country in the world that comes the closest to it, is still the most successful country in the world.....the US......

The US social welfare state, while not as generous as the western european nations, is still based on the New Deal model.

Movement conservatives have always wanted to eliminate the New Deal, and return to the glory days before the progressive era.


so are you a New Dealer now? You support all the government programs that rose out of the New Deal and Great Society? Or can you name a successful rightwing democratic country, along the models that Midcan alludes too?

[PostmodernProphet]

The US social welfare state, while not as generous as the western european nations, is still based on the New Deal model.

Movement conservatives have always wanted to eliminate the New Deal, and return to the glory days before the progressive era.


so are you a New Dealer now? You support all the government programs that rose out of the New Deal and Great Society? Or can you name a successful rightwing democratic country, along the models that Midcan alludes too?

fuck midcan's models.....if any country tried to follow midcan's models, it automatically would be moving away from being successful.......that's why the European nations had to band together just to remain relevant.......individually they would have vanished into obscurity.....

[belme1201]

and yet, the one country in the world that comes the closest to it, is still the most successful country in the world.....the US......

"Yet" in Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness, the US is not at the top. Scandinavia and W. Europe tops us. Where would we be if military spending was at the same level as other 'developed' countries and we were free to spend on problems within our borders?

[Cancel4]

Well said, Belme.

[charver]

"Yet" in Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness, the US is not at the top. Scandinavia and W. Europe tops us. Where would we be if military spending was at the same level as other 'developed' countries and we were free to spend on problems within our borders?

In Communist Russia.

(sorry, i thought i'd better say it before someone else comes along and actually means it )

[midcan5]

So what does the conservative do and why?

I am assuming conservatives can provide a well reasoned answer.

[PostmodernProphet]

"Yet" in Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness, the US is not at the top. Scandinavia and W. Europe tops us. Where would we be if military spending was at the same level as other 'developed' countries and we were free to spend on problems within our borders?

really?......you believe happiness is better pursued in the EU?.....by what standard?.....are people happier in Portugal than they are in Kansas?......is life merrier in Munich than it is in Minneapolis?......

[belme1201]

really?......you believe happiness is better pursued in the EU?.....by what standard?.....are people happier in Portugal than they are in Kansas?......is life merrier in Munich than it is in Minneapolis?......

The people of those countries think so in polls, who's a better judge? The Danes are the happiest people on Earth, followed by several others ahead of the US.
Now you can answer my question, IF you can.

[Gonzomin]

really?......you believe happiness is better pursued in the EU?.....by what standard?.....are people happier in Portugal than they are in Kansas?......is life merrier in Munich than it is in Minneapolis?......

Truth is countries are rated by happiness. Finland is one with most Scandinavian countries in the top spots. The US is 19th. It is called Happiness Quotient and we are below every industrialized country and dropping rapidly with Trump.

[Cancel 2016.2]

"Yet" in Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness, the US is not at the top. Scandinavia and W. Europe tops us. Where would we be if military spending was at the same level as other 'developed' countries and we were free to spend on problems within our borders?

Personally, I think we should indeed pull our military back to within our borders. No bases in any other country. No intervention anywhere outside our borders. Everyone else is on their own. We implement free trade with any other country and allow them the ability to run their country as they see fit.

Sound good?

[Whomever]

and yet, the one country in the world that comes the closest to it, is still the most successful country in the world.....the US......

Smallish government?

I think not, I suspect Iceland or somesuch place would be closer.

[PostmodernProphet]

Smallish government?

I think not, I suspect Iceland or somesuch place would be closer.

why, because it's a smaller country?....why not Lichtenstein?.....what if a country had a population of 100, but 99% of them worked for the government?.....