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Thread: On President Putin's Interview with Tucker Carlson | Cynthia Chung

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    Quote Originally Posted by QP! View Post
    When will those same people realize that not only does Tucker lie to them, but he admits he does?
    BLAH BLAH BLAH
    I choose my own words like the Americans of olden times........before this dystopia arrived.

    DARK AGES SUCK!

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    Quote Originally Posted by HawkeyeDerp10 View Post
    BLAH BLAH BLAH. Don't burst my bubble. I enjoy being lied to and considered a sucker.

    ...Fox's lawyers: The "'general tenor' of the show should then inform a viewer that [Carlson] is not 'stating actual facts' about the topics he discusses and is instead engaging in 'exaggeration' and 'non-literal commentary.' "

    She wrote: "Fox persuasively argues, that given Mr. Carlson's reputation, any reasonable viewer 'arrive[s] with an appropriate amount of skepticism' about the statement he makes."

    Vyskocil, an appointee of President Trump's, added, "Whether the Court frames Mr. Carlson's statements as 'exaggeration,' 'non-literal commentary,' or simply bloviating for his audience, the conclusion remains the same — the statements are not actionable."...

    cite
    .

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    Putin compliments Tucker:

    I choose my own words like the Americans of olden times........before this dystopia arrived.

    DARK AGES SUCK!

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    Phoenyx (02-16-2024)

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    RT is running with the story too...I take this as Putin doing some light mocking of Tucker for not preparing, which I myself complained about in real time in Goats thread:

    https://www.rt.com/russia/592452-put...son-dangerous/
    I choose my own words like the Americans of olden times........before this dystopia arrived.

    DARK AGES SUCK!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye10 View Post
    BLAH BLAH BLAH
    Blah. blah blah is how you face the facts.? https://www.cbsnews.com/news/tucker-...ld-trump-2024/ Tucker said many times he hates Trump. When he lost the election Tucker was happy that he did not have to deal with Trump anymore. Then he had to face the lies he told about Dominion. They programmed lying about Dominion on Fox and paid bigly. They have another bigger suit over their lies.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenyx View Post



    Originally Posted by Taichiliberal View Post
    More like just parroting the somewhat confused MAGA mindset.


    Never been a fan of Trump, sorry. I -do- recognize that he was less antagonistic with Russia in some ways, though he was pressured to not be so friendly and start supplying weapons to Ukraine. Well known journalist Aaron Mate wrote a very good article on the subject a few months after Russia started its military operation in Ukraine that I think was quite illuminating:
    Siding With Ukraine’s Far-Right, US Sabotaged Zelensky’s Peace Mandate | Scheerpost

    The west, vis a vis Boris Johnson, also sabotaged initial peace initiatives between Ukraine and Russia after the war had started as well:
    Boris Johnson Pressured Zelenskyy to Ditch Peace Talks With Russia: Ukrainian Paper | Common Dreams
    Excerpt from another response: The regurgitation of Mother Russia's original territory and who belonged to it is old hat. And guess what? THINGS CHANGE! SHIT HAPPENS!

    A country that went from monarchy to fascist dictatorship to communist to a brief spat of democracy to whatever-the-hell you want to call it now (oh, don't forget revolution, Japan-Russo War, WWII, the Cold War, the Yalta meeting) doesn't get to claim historical rights when masses of people threw that concept out the window. It's like this: the Maltese don't consider themselves mainland Italians, the Okinawans don't consider themselves main island Japanese. Same goes for a good portion of the Ukrainians.

    Now we can debate the Ukranian machinations dealing with neo-nazi types going after pro-Russian folk while officials looked the other way, but as I said before NOTHING EARTH SHATTERING CAME OUT OF THE CARLSON INTERVIEW.


    Bottom line: Carlson is nothing more than a bigoted, fascist leaning trust fund kid who craves praise, attention and some sense of power. Hell, even Putin called him an idiot after the interview.

    And for someone claiming NOT to be of the MAGA mindset, you sure do emulate it in your responses here.
    Last edited by Taichiliberal; 02-16-2024 at 01:52 AM.
    During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.

    George Orwell

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    Quote Originally Posted by Taichiliberal View Post
    Excerpt from another response: The regurgitation of Mother Russia's original territory and who belonged to it is old hat. And guess what? THINGS CHANGE! SHIT HAPPENS!

    A country that went from monarchy to fascist dictatorship to communist to a brief spat of democracy to whatever-the-hell you want to call it now (oh, don't forget revolution, Japan-Russo War, WWII, the Cold War, the Yalta meeting) doesn't get to claim historical rights when masses of people threw that concept out the window. It's like this: the Maltese don't consider themselves mainland Italians, the Okinawans don't consider themselves main island Japanese. Same goes for a good portion of the Ukrainians.

    Now we can debate the Ukranian machinations dealing with neo-nazi types going after pro-Russian folk while officials looked the other way, but as I said before NOTHING EARTH SHATTERING CAME OUT OF THE CARLSON INTERVIEW.


    Bottom line: Carlson is nothing more than a bigoted, fascist leaning trust fund kid who craves praise, attention and some sense of power. Hell, even Putin called him an idiot after the interview.

    And for someone claiming NOT to be of the MAGA mindset, you sure do emulated it in your reponses.
    U R such a liar....I might ask how U manage to live with yourself but me being educated I know what a waste of time that would be.
    I choose my own words like the Americans of olden times........before this dystopia arrived.

    DARK AGES SUCK!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye10 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenyx View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye10 View Post
    Putin was the decider not Tucker.
    I'm not sure what you mean by "decider", but I think we can agree that Tucker wouldn't have been able to do the interview at all without Putin's permission and he made it clear to Tucker that he would take as long as he desired to answer Tucker's questions. This clearly frustrated Tucker, but I think he had the intelligence to realize that Putin was unlikely to change his stance on this. I'm also glad that Putin did this- as Cynthia Chung said in her article that I quote in the opening post, "This method of discussion is not President Putin being “tyrannical” or “not used to being questioned about his reasons for doing things,” it is in fact the manner in which a truly civilized person responsibly discusses subjects that will affect the lives of billions of people on this planet. Why would we think that such large questions deserve such small answers in the first place?".
    Putin decided that there was to be a conversation, Tucker was always a hard yes.
    Ah ok, now I understand what you mean.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye10 View Post
    U seem to become confused easily.
    I'd say it's more that saying "Putin was the decider" was an ambiguous statement. You hadn't specified what he had decided.
    "Trust those who seek the truth, doubt those who find it" - Andre Gide

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    Quote Originally Posted by Taichiliberal View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenyx View Post
    First, I'd like to say that I'm happy you have apparently seen the interview and read the first 12 paragraphs I quoted of Cynthia Chung's article. It's hard to have a real discussion with someone if they refuse to inform themselves of the subject matter being debated.

    As to whether there was some earth shattering revelation that Carlson got out of Putin, perhaps, but if so, I didn't see it. What I -did- see in the interview simply reinforced what I'd already believed for some time, which is that Putin may have his flaws but he is also highly intelligent and knowledgeable on Russia's history. Cynthia Chung goes into great depth on Putin's description of Russian history as it relates to Ukraine. You've told me you've read the first 12 paragraphs of Cynthia's article, but perhaps you didn't read what she wrote further down that I think is quite illuminating in regards to the conflict in Ukraine. Quoting another 10 paragraphs from her article:

    **
    President Putin begins with a history lesson of how the Russian state was created, which included the region of Kiev over 1000 years ago. Obviously if we were to talk about the merits of today’s U.S. borders, including its possession of Puerto Rico and Hawaii, we would expect there to be some degree of history to explain how such things came to be and why, at least from an American point of view, those regional possessions are justified.

    However, what stands in stark contrast to what Putin is outlining here vs. the very existence of the United States which was, whether we like it or not, formed at the expense of the indigenous peoples who were already living there - in stark contrast to this large elephant in the room, Putin is actually outlining a Russian history with Ukraine (which was originally Russian until relatively recently) that dates back over 1000 YEARS!

    Let’s think about this a little more shall we? President Putin was actually given a bit of a hard time even from Tucker Carlson for this long account of Russian history with the region that is known as Ukraine today, but in reality has only come recently into existence through artificial means (we will get into why this is shortly).

    So, unlike the American territories, Ukraine was originally Russian over 1000 years ago and has continued to have a strong Russian identity, culture and language TO THIS DAY, with about 1/3 of the Ukrainian population speaking predominantly Russian.


    Attachment 25903

    Note the region in brown is Crimea which is ethnic Russian and Russian speaking as even Tucker Carlson in his overview of the interview back at his hotel room admitted and did not disagree with Crimea’s referendum vote to return to Russia. He brought Crimea up in context to the attempt to come to an agreement in ending the war in Ukraine, and that one of the conditionalities that were being demanded by the West was that Crimea would be given back to Ukraine…against the Crimean people’s referendum vote. Even Carlson agrees that this is an insane demand and that the Crimean people are essentially Russian and wish to remain so.

    Whereas the United States was founded not just at the expense of the indigenous peoples already living there, but would also later commit a genocide against the indigenous peoples in the 19th century! I am not saying here that the founding of America was all bad, but what has been the overall conduct of the American government and its people against the indigenous peoples is not something one can simply pardon themselves of as if such actions were justified. The matter is indeed very complicated, for those who wish to know more about the British and Scottish Rite manipulations of the situation they can refer here.

    But, suffice to say, it is still a general American failure that a genocide along with concentration camps otherwise known as reservations were committed and implemented against the indigenous peoples without too much opposition from the American people. There needs to be at least a public acknowledgment of this wrongdoing.

    This is the supreme irony of the United States who has made incessantly loud and bombastic interferences with the relationship between Russia and Ukraine, and yet cannot even justify its own existence using the same black and white standard it is applying to Russia.

    Just to be clear here, this subject of the indigenous peoples is not what President Putin mentioned in his discussion with Carlson. However, this is a point that has been made numerous times by the Russian government and its PR and press and is a view that has been frequently brought up and is largely shared by the non-western world (which amounts to over 70% of the world’s population at this point).

    And most importantly, it is a VALID point.

    **

    Full article:
    On President Putin's Interview with Tucker Carlson... | Cynthia Chung
    As to whether there was some earth shattering revelation that Carlson got out of Putin, perhaps, but if so, I didn't see it.

    Then that's it! Period.
    No, that's just the answer to your implied question. What I'm trying to get you to realize is that just because Carlson didn't get Putin to reveal any "earth shattering information" as far as I could see doesn't mean that the interview wasn't highly illuminating in regards to Russia's history and things like the Russian government's decision to start a military operation in Ukraine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Taichiliberal View Post
    The regurgitation of Mother Russia's original territory and who belonged to it is old hat.
    I personally wasn't familiar with the fact that Kyev used to be part of Russia. Were you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Taichiliberal View Post
    And guess what? THINGS CHANGE! SHIT HAPPENS!
    Certainly. However, knowing how things were can frequently go a long way to explaining why things are the way they are today. I think it's worth noting that Putin didn't stop talking about Russia's history 1000 years ago, but continued right up until the Russian government's decision to start its military operation in Ukraine. One part I found to be particularly interesting is where the word Ukraine came from. Putin actually elaborated on this as Celia Farber points out:

    **
    The next empire the Galicia-Volhynia region would be subjected to (now split off from Russia) was the Grand Duchy of Lithuania. Again, in President Putin’s interview with Carlson, he is referring to the Kingdom of Galicia-Volhynia as part of Russia, “the southern part of the Russian lands, including Kiev” and he views this lost of sovereignty as a loss of sovereignty of a section of Russia that was taken over by the Mongol Empire, followed by the Lithuanian Empire which would later become the Polish-Lithuanian Empire. In other words, these Russian people were cut off from the rest of Russia due to the Mongol Empire and later the Polish-Lithuanian Empire.

    It was during this rule by the Polish in particular and their attempt at “Polonization” of these subjected Russian people that many cruel abuses and injustices occurred. This is also why there was so much hatred towards the Polish people by Ukrainians who had decided to side with the Nazis during WWII and to which pogroms were conducted by the Ukrainian population against the Jewish and non-Jewish Polish population (for more on this refer here).

    President Putin states: “During decades, the Poles were engaged in the ‘Polonization’ of this part of the population: they introduced their language there, tried to entrench the idea that this population was not exactly Russians, that because they lived on the fringe (u kraya) they were ‘Ukrainians.’ Originally, the word ‘Ukrainian’ meant that a person was living on the outskirts of the state, near the fringe, or was engaged in border service. It didn't mean any particular ethnic group.

    So, the Poles were trying in every possible way to polonize this part of the Russian lands and actually treated it rather harshly, not to say cruelly. All that led to the fact that this part of the Russian lands began to struggle for their rights. They wrote letters to Warsaw [in Poland] demanding that their rights be observed and that people be commissioned here, including to Kiev…”

    It is very interesting what President Putin does next. He hands Tucker Carlson the documents from the archives, copies of letters from Bogdan Khmelnytsky to Warsaw, Poland demanding their rights be upheld.

    Bogdan Khmelnytsky (1595-1657) was the military commander of the Cossacks and founder of the Cossack Hetmanate, also known as the Zaporozhian Host or the Army of Zaporozhia, the region that is now largely called Ukraine.

    President Putin states: “Here are letters from Bogdan Khmelnitsky, the man who then controlled the power in this part of the Russian lands that is now called Ukraine. He wrote to Warsaw demanding that their rights be upheld, and after being refused, he began to write letters to Moscow asking to take them under the strong hand of the Moscow Tsar. There are copies of these documents. I will leave them for your good memory. There is a translation into Russian, you can translate it into English later.

    Russia would not agree to admit them straight away, assuming this would trigger a war with Poland. Nevertheless, in 1654, the Zemsky Sobor, which was a representative body of power of the Old Russian state, made the decision: those Old Russian lands became part of the Tsardom of Muscovy.

    As expected, the war with Poland began. It lasted 13 years, and then a truce was concluded. In all, after that act of 1654, 32 years later, I think, a peace treaty with Poland was concluded, “the eternal peace,” as it is said. And those lands, the whole left bank of the Dnieper, including Kiev, reverted to Russia, while the entire right bank of the Dnieper remained in possession of Poland.”
    **

    Source:
    On President Putin's Interview with Tucker Carlson... | Celia Farber

    Notice anything similar in what happened in 1654? Part of what is now Ukraine asking for more rights from its central government, not getting them and turning to Russia to get them? Just in case you don't, I'm referring to the Donbass Republics doing the same with its central government in Kyev after the Euromaidan coup, not getting them and then turning to Russia, which, just as in 1654, took several years to finally grant them their request and starting its war with Poland.

    Quote Originally Posted by Taichiliberal View Post
    A country that went from monarchy to fascist dictatorship to communist to a brief spat of democracy to whatever-the-hell you want to call it now (oh, don't forget revolution, Japan-Russo War, WWII, the Cold War, the Yalta meeting) doesn't get to claim historical rights when masses of people threw that concept out the window.
    I'm not sure what you mean by "historical rights". Perhaps you are suggesting that Putin is trying to say that since Ukraine used to be part of Russia, it should all be part of Russia again? If so, I was never making that claim. I believe that Putin was simply trying to point out that the Ukrainian nation is a relatively recent invention and that its roots are strongly Russian. Putin also elaborates on when Ukraine became a Republic for the first time- it was a creation of the U.S.S.R.:

    **
    In 1922, when the USSR was being established, the Bolsheviks started building the USSR and established the Soviet Ukraine, which had never existed before.

    …For some inexplicable reason, Lenin, the founder of the Soviet state, insisted that they be entitled to withdraw from the USSR. And, again for some unknown reasons, he transferred to that newly established Soviet Republic of Ukraine some of the lands together with people living there, even though those lands had never been called Ukraine; and yet they were made part of that Soviet Republic of Ukraine. Those lands included the Black Sea region, which was received under Catherine the Great and which had no historical connection with Ukraine whatsoever.”
    **

    Source:
    On President Putin's Interview with Tucker Carlson... | Celia Farber

    Putin is referring to Crimea with that last bit there, though it would seem that he got mixed up as to who actually transferred Crimea to Ukraine. He mentions Lenin, but from what I have read, it was actually Soviet leader Nikita Kruschev who did the transfer. An NPR article called "Crimea: A Gift To Ukraine Becomes A Political Flash Point" gets into the details. While one can search and find a summary of the article on NPR, when one clicks on the link, it says that the page isn't working. Fortunately, the article has been mirrored well on another site. Quoting from it:
    **
    In 1954, Soviet leader Nikita Khrushchev gave Ukraine a gift: Crimea. At the time, it seemed like a routine move, but six decades later, that gift is having consequences for both countries.

    The transfer merited only a paragraph in Pravda, the official Soviet newspaper, on Feb. 27, 1954. The story was one long sentence and dense with detail. Here's what it said:

    "Decree of the Presidium of the USSR Supreme Soviet transferring Crimea Province from the Russian Republic to the Ukraine Republic, taking into account the integral character of the economy, the territorial proximity and the close economic ties between Crimea Province and the Ukraine Republic, and approving the joint presentation of the Presidium of the Russian Republic Supreme Soviet and the Presidium of the Ukraine Republic Supreme Soviet on the transfer of Crimea Province from the Russian Republic to the Ukraine Republic."

    And with that, a region that had been part of Russia for centuries was "gifted" to Ukraine.

    "Gifted" because Khrushchev's transfer was ostensibly to mark the 300th anniversary of Ukraine's merger with the Russian empire. And he probably didn't think the Soviet Union would be gone less than 40 years later.

    **

    Source:
    Crimea: A Gift To Ukraine Becomes A Political Flash Point | North Country Public Radio

    Quote Originally Posted by Taichiliberal View Post
    It's like this: the Maltese don't consider themselves mainland Italians, the Okinawans don't consider themselves main island Japanese. Same goes for a good portion of the Ukrainians.
    I completely agree. However, I'm sure you're also aware that a civil war started in Ukraine soon after the Euromaidan coup. Why do you think that happened?

    Quote Originally Posted by Taichiliberal View Post
    Now we can debate the Ukranian machinations dealing with neo-nazi types going after pro-Russian folk while officials looked the other way, but as I said before NOTHING EARTH SHATTERING CAME OUT OF THE CARLSON INTERVIEW.
    I'm rather mystified as to why you're so interested in whether or not Putin said anything "earth shattering" in his interview with Carlson. A lot of very important information can be exchanged even said information isn't "earth shattering".

    Quote Originally Posted by Taichiliberal View Post
    As they use to say in the Marvel comics bullpen, "Nuff said".
    As an aside, I'm actually a pretty big fan of Marvel comics, as well as Wolverine, though the Marvel movies/tv series have been failing my expectations recently (I still really liked the second season of Loki though). I even have a year long subscription to Marvel's online comics.
    Last edited by Phoenyx; 02-16-2024 at 06:10 AM.
    "Trust those who seek the truth, doubt those who find it" - Andre Gide

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    Quote Originally Posted by goat View Post
    Carlson/Putin interview has over 1 billion worldwide views.
    Where did you get that statistic? Here's some numbers I've found:

    **
    Feb 9, 2024

    In less than 24 hours, Tucker Carlson's controversial interview with Russian President Vladimir Putin has gotten millions of views. But how many people actually watched the 2 hour-long video on X, where Carlson has a partnership for his program, is actually not public information.

    That's because in May of 2023, the platform removed video views from public view. Instead, all posts on the platform contain "views" which are actually just impressions, meaning how many times the post itself was seen by a user. It is not indicative of whether the user clicked on the post or watched the video associated with it. It also provides no indication as to how much of the two-hour video users engaged with.

    As of this writing, the post on X with the video has over 125 million impressions on the platform.

    While Carlson has a partnership with Elon Musk's social media platform, he also posts his videos on YouTube. His exclusive interview had more than 6 million views in the first 24 hours after it was posted. Views on YouTube are counted if viewers watch at minimum of 30 seconds of the video.

    **

    Full article:
    Is Tucker Carlson's interview with Vladimir Putin the most watched video of all-time on Elon Musk's X? | Austin American Statesman

    As of right now, views of the interview on Youtube have gone up to 17 million, and impressions/views of the post containing the interview on X has come up to a bit over 200 million, but even if we were to add both the impressions and the youtube views , that still doesn't even get to a quarter of a billion. I'm not saying they're low numbers, far from it, just not as high as you're saying.

    X certainly seems to have done well because of it:

    X, formerly Twitter, becomes No. 1 app on US App Store after news of Tucker Carlson-Putin interview emerges | techcrunch.com
    "Trust those who seek the truth, doubt those who find it" - Andre Gide

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenyx View Post
    Where did you get that statistic? Here's some numbers I've found:

    **
    Feb 9, 2024

    In less than 24 hours, Tucker Carlson's controversial interview with Russian President Vladimir Putin has gotten millions of views. But how many people actually watched the 2 hour-long video on X, where Carlson has a partnership for his program, is actually not public information.

    That's because in May of 2023, the platform removed video views from public view. Instead, all posts on the platform contain "views" which are actually just impressions, meaning how many times the post itself was seen by a user. It is not indicative of whether the user clicked on the post or watched the video associated with it. It also provides no indication as to how much of the two-hour video users engaged with.

    As of this writing, the post on X with the video has over 125 million impressions on the platform.

    While Carlson has a partnership with Elon Musk's social media platform, he also posts his videos on YouTube. His exclusive interview had more than 6 million views in the first 24 hours after it was posted. Views on YouTube are counted if viewers watch at minimum of 30 seconds of the video.

    **

    Full article:
    Is Tucker Carlson's interview with Vladimir Putin the most watched video of all-time on Elon Musk's X? | Austin American Statesman

    As of right now, views of the interview on Youtube have gone up to 17 million, and impressions/views of the post containing the interview on X has come up to a bit over 200 million, but even if we were to add both the impressions and the youtube views , that still doesn't even get to a quarter of a billion. I'm not saying they're low numbers, far from it, just not as high as you're saying.

    X certainly seems to have done well because of it:

    X, formerly Twitter, becomes No. 1 app on US App Store after news of Tucker Carlson-Putin interview emerges | techcrunch.com
    I posted the number seconds after I heard it because not many videos get over 1 billion views. It was a 90 minute or 2-hour video so I didn't post it. There are a few dozen different video viewers worldwide other than X and Youtube. China, India, Africa, and South America all know about the US being the world bully, so I'm sure they wanted to hear what Putin had to say. I wouldn't post it if it wasn't from a reliable source.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenyx View Post
    No, that's just the answer to your implied question. What I'm trying to get you to realize is that just because Carlson didn't get Putin to reveal any "earth shattering information" as far as I could see doesn't mean that the interview wasn't highly illuminating in regards to Russia's history and things like the Russian government's decision to start a military operation in Ukraine.



    I personally wasn't familiar with the fact that Kyev used to be part of Russia. Were you?



    Certainly. However, knowing how things were can frequently go a long way to explaining why things are the way they are today. I think it's worth noting that Putin didn't stop talking about Russia's history 1000 years ago, but continued right up until the Russian government's decision to start its military operation in Ukraine. One part I found to be particularly interesting is where the word Ukraine came from. Putin actually elaborated on this as Celia Farber points out:

    **
    The next empire the Galicia-Volhynia region would be subjected to (now split off from Russia) was the Grand Duchy of Lithuania. Again, in President Putin’s interview with Carlson, he is referring to the Kingdom of Galicia-Volhynia as part of Russia, “the southern part of the Russian lands, including Kiev” and he views this lost of sovereignty as a loss of sovereignty of a section of Russia that was taken over by the Mongol Empire, followed by the Lithuanian Empire which would later become the Polish-Lithuanian Empire. In other words, these Russian people were cut off from the rest of Russia due to the Mongol Empire and later the Polish-Lithuanian Empire.

    It was during this rule by the Polish in particular and their attempt at “Polonization” of these subjected Russian people that many cruel abuses and injustices occurred. This is also why there was so much hatred towards the Polish people by Ukrainians who had decided to side with the Nazis during WWII and to which pogroms were conducted by the Ukrainian population against the Jewish and non-Jewish Polish population (for more on this refer here).

    President Putin states: “During decades, the Poles were engaged in the ‘Polonization’ of this part of the population: they introduced their language there, tried to entrench the idea that this population was not exactly Russians, that because they lived on the fringe (u kraya) they were ‘Ukrainians.’ Originally, the word ‘Ukrainian’ meant that a person was living on the outskirts of the state, near the fringe, or was engaged in border service. It didn't mean any particular ethnic group.

    So, the Poles were trying in every possible way to polonize this part of the Russian lands and actually treated it rather harshly, not to say cruelly. All that led to the fact that this part of the Russian lands began to struggle for their rights. They wrote letters to Warsaw [in Poland] demanding that their rights be observed and that people be commissioned here, including to Kiev…”

    It is very interesting what President Putin does next. He hands Tucker Carlson the documents from the archives, copies of letters from Bogdan Khmelnytsky to Warsaw, Poland demanding their rights be upheld.

    Bogdan Khmelnytsky (1595-1657) was the military commander of the Cossacks and founder of the Cossack Hetmanate, also known as the Zaporozhian Host or the Army of Zaporozhia, the region that is now largely called Ukraine.

    President Putin states: “Here are letters from Bogdan Khmelnitsky, the man who then controlled the power in this part of the Russian lands that is now called Ukraine. He wrote to Warsaw demanding that their rights be upheld, and after being refused, he began to write letters to Moscow asking to take them under the strong hand of the Moscow Tsar. There are copies of these documents. I will leave them for your good memory. There is a translation into Russian, you can translate it into English later.

    Russia would not agree to admit them straight away, assuming this would trigger a war with Poland. Nevertheless, in 1654, the Zemsky Sobor, which was a representative body of power of the Old Russian state, made the decision: those Old Russian lands became part of the Tsardom of Muscovy.

    As expected, the war with Poland began. It lasted 13 years, and then a truce was concluded. In all, after that act of 1654, 32 years later, I think, a peace treaty with Poland was concluded, “the eternal peace,” as it is said. And those lands, the whole left bank of the Dnieper, including Kiev, reverted to Russia, while the entire right bank of the Dnieper remained in possession of Poland.”
    **

    Source:
    On President Putin's Interview with Tucker Carlson... | Celia Farber

    Notice anything similar in what happened in 1654? Part of what is now Ukraine asking for more rights from its central government, not getting them and turning to Russia to get them? Just in case you don't, I'm referring to the Donbass Republics doing the same with its central government in Kyev after the Euromaidan coup, not getting them and then turning to Russia, which, just as in 1654, took several years to finally grant them their request and starting its war with Poland.



    I'm not sure what you mean by "historical rights". Perhaps you are suggesting that Putin is trying to say that since Ukraine used to be part of Russia, it should all be part of Russia again? If so, I was never making that claim. I believe that Putin was simply trying to point out that the Ukrainian nation is a relatively recent invention and that its roots are strongly Russian. Putin also elaborates on when Ukraine became a Republic for the first time- it was a creation of the U.S.S.R.:

    **
    In 1922, when the USSR was being established, the Bolsheviks started building the USSR and established the Soviet Ukraine, which had never existed before.

    …For some inexplicable reason, Lenin, the founder of the Soviet state, insisted that they be entitled to withdraw from the USSR. And, again for some unknown reasons, he transferred to that newly established Soviet Republic of Ukraine some of the lands together with people living there, even though those lands had never been called Ukraine; and yet they were made part of that Soviet Republic of Ukraine. Those lands included the Black Sea region, which was received under Catherine the Great and which had no historical connection with Ukraine whatsoever.”
    **

    Source:
    On President Putin's Interview with Tucker Carlson... | Celia Farber

    Putin is referring to Crimea with that last bit there, though it would seem that he got mixed up as to who actually transferred Crimea to Ukraine. He mentions Lenin, but from what I have read, it was actually Soviet leader Nikita Kruschev who did the transfer. An NPR article called "Crimea: A Gift To Ukraine Becomes A Political Flash Point" gets into the details. While one can search and find a summary of the article on NPR, when one clicks on the link, it says that the page isn't working. Fortunately, the article has been mirrored well on another site. Quoting from it:
    **
    In 1954, Soviet leader Nikita Khrushchev gave Ukraine a gift: Crimea. At the time, it seemed like a routine move, but six decades later, that gift is having consequences for both countries.

    The transfer merited only a paragraph in Pravda, the official Soviet newspaper, on Feb. 27, 1954. The story was one long sentence and dense with detail. Here's what it said:

    "Decree of the Presidium of the USSR Supreme Soviet transferring Crimea Province from the Russian Republic to the Ukraine Republic, taking into account the integral character of the economy, the territorial proximity and the close economic ties between Crimea Province and the Ukraine Republic, and approving the joint presentation of the Presidium of the Russian Republic Supreme Soviet and the Presidium of the Ukraine Republic Supreme Soviet on the transfer of Crimea Province from the Russian Republic to the Ukraine Republic."

    And with that, a region that had been part of Russia for centuries was "gifted" to Ukraine.

    "Gifted" because Khrushchev's transfer was ostensibly to mark the 300th anniversary of Ukraine's merger with the Russian empire. And he probably didn't think the Soviet Union would be gone less than 40 years later.

    **

    Source:
    Crimea: A Gift To Ukraine Becomes A Political Flash Point | North Country Public Radio



    I completely agree. However, I'm sure you're also aware that a civil war started in Ukraine soon after the Euromaidan coup. Why do you think that happened?



    I'm rather mystified as to why you're so interested in whether or not Putin said anything "earth shattering" in his interview with Carlson. A lot of very important information can be exchanged even said information isn't "earth shattering".



    As an aside, I'm actually a pretty big fan of Marvel comics, as well as Wolverine, though the Marvel movies/tv series have been failing my expectations recently (I still really liked the second season of Loki though). I even have a year long subscription to Marvel's online comics.
    Oh Lord! Whenever you go into "gas bag" mode, it's just a wasted effort by you to avoid being wrong on even the most minute point. To start with, I didn't "imply" a question. Anyone who follows the chronology of the posts knows EXACTLY what I stated and asked for in no uncertain terms.

    You already conceded that Carlson's interview DID NOT REVEAL ANYTHING KNEW OR EARTH SHATTERING FROM PUTIN. Everything else you've posted is just a waste of time and effort. Happy you like to research parts of Russian history...but as Putin did similar...it changes NOTHING with regards to what's going down in Ukraine...no justification. Period.

    Putin can repeat his historic reasoning for imperialistic expansion all he wants and you can provide all the specious historical support to it. Doesn't hold up, and hasn't since the fall of the Soviet Union. https://www.history.com/this-day-in-...s-independence

    You're just running that gerbil wheel, kid. No matter what half assed way you try, you can't shake the sheer reality of my initial statement about Carlson's interview. But as it seems you like having the last (albeit repetitive) word here, I'll leave you to it.
    During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.

    George Orwell

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    Quote Originally Posted by QP! View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenyx View Post
    Agreed. The problem is that you don't have to be truthful to be succinct. QP made a lot of claims above, but he didn't back up any of them.
    Backing them up is not what makes the statements truthful or not.
    I agree with that too. The problem here is that if you (or anyone else) doesn't back up their statements, knowing whether they are true or not can become anyone's guess.
    "Trust those who seek the truth, doubt those who find it" - Andre Gide

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    Quote Originally Posted by QP! View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenyx View Post
    I've never heard Putin claim that he wants to absorb all of Ukraine into Russia. He -has- said that he wants Ukraine to be de nazified, and he said so in his interview with Tucker. Quoting him:
    **
    No, we haven't achieved our aims yet, because one of them is denazification. This means the prohibition of all kinds of neo-Nazi movements.
    **

    Source:
    Vladimir Putin Interview with Tucker Carlson | American Rhetoric
    ^^^More ignorance you could easily educate yourself on.
    QP, it's easy to making unsubstantiated claims. What's hard is to substantiate them. In this particular case, I'm not even sure what it is you think I'm ignorant on. You've got a long way to go here to get somewhere constructive in this discussion.
    "Trust those who seek the truth, doubt those who find it" - Andre Gide

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye10 View Post
    Well the big change is that people are beginning to understand that corporate media constantly lies to us and have gravitated to the internet to listen to people such as Tucker....
    Agreed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye10 View Post
    which is why the Regime is getting ready to obliterate free speech on the internet and in apps.
    I don't think they'll succeed, but they certainly do seem to be putting in a good deal of effort.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye10 View Post
    Pay close attention to what they are doing to Musk for the crime of X.
    Also agreed. Though personally I've begun to spend a lot more time on substack than X, X still has some good stuff, such as Tucker's interview with Putin.
    "Trust those who seek the truth, doubt those who find it" - Andre Gide

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