Reply With QuoteLots of change. People have more time off work now.
We have moved some to 0 hour work weeks.
Thrillhouse
Where's the Change?
Seriously. Where is it? I'm not one to jump up and down every time the Obama Administration does things that are the same to similar to the Bush Administration but I thought that on certain issues, like civil liberties, Obama committed to changing the way things were done.
The practice of searching laptops, cell phones and other electronic devices without any suspicion of wrongdoing was noxious when the Bush Administration did it and its noxious when the Obama Administration does it. They can take their "new oversight" and shove it. And describing "more fully" how you intend to invade civil liberties doesn't make it any less invasive or obtrusive.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...704065_pf.htmlThe Obama administration will largely preserve Bush-era procedures allowing the government to search -- without suspicion of wrongdoing -- the contents of a traveler's laptop computer, cellphone or other electronic device, although officials said new policies would expand oversight of such inspections.
The policy, disclosed Thursday in a pair of Department of Homeland Security directives, describes more fully than did the Bush administration the procedures by which travelers' laptops, iPods, cameras and other digital devices can be searched and seized when they cross a U.S. border. And it sets time limits for completing searches.
But representatives of civil liberties and travelers groups say they see little substantive difference between the Bush-era policy, which prompted controversy, and this one.
"It's a disappointing ratification of the suspicionless search policy put in place by the Bush administration," said Catherine Crump, staff attorney for the American Civil Liberties Union. "It provides a lot of procedural safeguards, but it doesn't deal with the fundamental problem, which is that under the policy, government officials are free to search people's laptops and cellphones for any reason whatsoever."
Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano yesterday framed the new policy as an enhancement of oversight. "Keeping Americans safe in an increasingly digital world depends on our ability to lawfully screen materials entering the United States," she said in a statement. "The new directives announced today strike the balance between respecting the civil liberties and privacy of all travelers while ensuring DHS can take the lawful actions necessary to secure our borders."
For instance, searches conducted by U.S. Customs and Border Protection officers should now generally take no more than 5 days, and no more than 30 days for searches by Immigration and Customs Enforcement special agents. The directives also require for the first time that automated tools be developed to ensure the reliable tracking of statistics relating to searches, and that audits be conducted periodically to ensure the guidelines are being followed, officials said.
Such measures drew praise from House Homeland Security Committee Chairman Bennie Thompson (D-Miss.), who called the new policy "a major step forward," and from Rep. Loretta Sanchez (D-Calif.), who introduced legislation this year to strengthen protections for travelers whose devices are searched.
But the civil liberties community was disappointed.
"Under the policy begun by Bush and now continued by Obama, the government can open your laptop and read your medical records, financial records, e-mails, work product and personal correspondence -- all without any suspicion of illegal activity," said Elizabeth Goitein, who leads the liberty and national security project at the nonprofit Brennan Center for Justice.
Goitein, formerly a counsel to Sen. Russell Feingold (D-Wis.), said the Bush policy itself "broke sharply" with previous Customs directives, which required reasonable suspicion before agents could read the contents of documents. Feingold last year introduced legislation to restore the requirement.
Jack Riepe, spokesman for the Association of Corporate Travel Executives, said the guidelines "still have many of the inherent weaknesses" of the Bush-era policy.
Between October 2008 and Aug. 11, more than 221 million travelers passed through CBP checkpoints. About 1,000 laptop searches were performed, only 46 in-depth, the DHS said.
Villified User
Lots of change. People have more time off work now.
We have moved some to 0 hour work weeks.
Bush doubled the debt from 5 trillion to 10 trillion.
Proving tax cuts work!
Bush asked for and signed for the TARP money.
The Republican senate leader backed Bush on this.
rebel
'more oversight' = more people signing off on the policy.
hurray for freedom.
A sad commentary on we, as a people, and our viewpoint of our freedom can be summed up like this. We have liberals and conservatives, Democrats and Republicans, yet those very people look at Constitutionalists as radical and extreme.................so those liberals and conservatives, Democrats and Republicans must believe that the constitution is radical and extreme.
New Nicotine Free Version
JPP Staff
I don't know. It does give more credence to the "one party two heads" theory.
Excellence is an art won by training and habituation. We do not act rightly because we have virtue or excellence, but rather we have those because we have acted rightly. We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit.
- -- Aristotle
Believe nothing on the faith of traditions, even though they have been held in honor for many generations and in diverse places. Do not believe a thing because many people speak of it. Do not believe on the faith of the sages of the past. Do not believe what you yourself have imagined, persuading yourself that a God inspires you. Believe nothing on the sole authority of your masters and priests. After examination, believe what you yourself have tested and found to be reasonable, and conform your conduct thereto.
- -- The Buddha
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
- -- Aristotle
<-- sched 2, MJ sched 1
its a good pointOriginally Posted by Damocles
a friend told me to watch after this election how obama will act similar to bush, despite promises contrary and people who bashed bush for certain things will accept that obama does them and be ok with it and people who defended bush for certain things will criticize obama for the same....
i have seen similar to bush in more things than i thought would be, i have seen many libs defend obama for things they criticized bush and some conservatives do the last....
Villified User
And I have seen cons bash obama for doing things that Bush did which was ok with them then.
Go figure.
Bush doubled the debt from 5 trillion to 10 trillion.
Proving tax cuts work!
Bush asked for and signed for the TARP money.
The Republican senate leader backed Bush on this.
rebel
next month, I hear that cats and dogs will start living together.
A sad commentary on we, as a people, and our viewpoint of our freedom can be summed up like this. We have liberals and conservatives, Democrats and Republicans, yet those very people look at Constitutionalists as radical and extreme.................so those liberals and conservatives, Democrats and Republicans must believe that the constitution is radical and extreme.
<-- sched 2, MJ sched 1
did you read my post? or are you saying go figure because you're talking to your other two or so niks....?
Villified User
I am just saying this is working both ways.
Pretty funny for either side to piss and moan about it.
Bush doubled the debt from 5 trillion to 10 trillion.
Proving tax cuts work!
Bush asked for and signed for the TARP money.
The Republican senate leader backed Bush on this.
fully immersed in faith..
I can sympathize with you TF....I recall having a similar reaction every time it became obvious Bush wasn't a fiscal conservative....
Catalyst
I voted for him and have been disappointed in a number of his decisions. For example:
-searching laptops, etc. as you mentioned above
-sending troops to Afghanistan
-not getting out of Iraq faster
-not ending "Don't ask, don't tell"
-not closing Guantanamo yet
-not completely ending rendition
-waffling on investigating the bush administration
These are the ones that come to mind but I'm sure they're are others if I continue to think about it. And if he fails on getting health care passed, I'll have to seriously reconsider voting for him in the next election.
High Level of Addiction
I don't know; it's pretty easy to pick out similar policies and say "where's the change?"
To me, the change is there, in a very significant way. The country is talking about universal healthcare; the new budget prioritizes healthcare, education, alternative energy, et al. The tax proposals are more progressive, and our image around the globe has done a 180.
Obama is doing much of what he campaigned on. That's not to say that I'm not disappointed in certain things he has or hasn't done, but overall, the change is very welcome from the purgatory of the Bush years.
Just to name a few, thanks!
The Force is With Me
SEE: Leaving Obamaland
AMERICAN HISTORY ITSELF IS A TESTAMENT TO THE STRENGTH AND RESILIENCE OF AFRICAN PEOPLE. WE, ALONG WITH THE COURGE AND SACRIFICES OF CONSCIOUS WHITE AMERICANS, LIKE VIOLA LIUZZO, EVERETT DIRKSEN, AND MANY OTHERS, HAVE FOUGHT AND DIED TOGETHER FOR OUR FREEDOM, AND FOR OUR SURVIVAL.
In America, rights are are not determined by what is just, fair, equitable, honest, nor by what Jesus would do. Rights are determined ONLY by what you can DEMAND.
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