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Thread: If God is dead, then everything is permitted.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BidenPresident View Post
    Aristotle produced one of the most sophisticated texts on ethics. And it had nothing to do with God.
    Ethics change and evolve.

    Aristotle's Nicomachean Ethics is essentially about how to create a flourishing life for yourself, how to maximize happiness in your own life.

    The ethics of the Jewish prophets and Jesus were focused to a large extent on service to others.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BidenPresident View Post
    I think Dostoevsky actually said it himself.
    Maybe, that I don't know myself

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
    Ethics change and evolve.

    Aristotle's Nicomachean Ethics is essentially about how to create a flourishing life for yourself, how to maximize happiness in your own life.

    The ethics of the Jewish prophets and Jesus were focused to a large extent on service to others.
    Wrong about Aristotle. Haven't you admitted you never read the Ethics?

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    Quote Originally Posted by BidenPresident View Post
    Wrong about Aristotle. Haven't you admitted you never read the Ethics?
    I've read the Nicomachean Ethics, and while it has great insights, there's not much in there about charity, mercy, service to others.

    The emphasis is eudemonia, which is about the virtues needed to create a flourishing, purposeful life for oneself. Which is great, if you take it for what it is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
    I've read the Nicomachean Ethics, and while it has great insights, there's not much in there about charity, mercy, service to others.

    The emphasis is eudemonia, which is about the virtues needed to create a flourishing, purposeful life for oneself.
    Charity is a virtue you choose to have. Aristotle never argues against it.
    He is talking about a person's relations to other people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarod View Post
    Sure there is, lots of reasons. The rights of man, the efficiency of Capitalism. The allowing each to make their own choices as to how to live. Just a few off the top of my head.
    You mean the rights the founders declared were given to us by the creator? Those rights? The whole basis for our separation from England was the belief that men had rights granted by a higher authority than man. That's how they dared to defy Georgie porgie. It's clear to everyone but a leftist.
    "Political correctness is fascism pretending to be manners" - George Carlin

    "Education is a system of imposed ignorance" - Noam Chomsky

    "Leftists actually think everyone is as stupid as a leftist." - Yakuda

    "No, Trump isn't a fascist, tatt boy." - moon

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    Quote Originally Posted by BidenPresident View Post
    Charity is a virtue you choose to have. Aristotle never argues against it.
    He is talking about a person's relations to other people.
    Exactly, service to others is not a focus in Nicomachean Ethics. It just doesn't really come up.


    I think you get different perspectives by reading different ethical traditions.

    Aristotle's eleven key virtues are brilliant.

    But he doesn't really have anything similar to the parable of the Good Samaritan, or the Sermon on the Mount.

    And neither Jesus nor Aristotle have anything quite like the eightfold path of The Buddha.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
    Exactly, service to others is not a focus in Nicomachean Ethics. It just doesn't really come up.


    I think you get different perspectives by reading different ethical traditions.

    Aristotle's eleven key virtues are brilliant.

    But he doesn't have anything similar to the parable of the Good Samaritan, or the Sermon on the Mount.

    And neither Jesus nor Aristotle have anything quite like the eightfold path of The Buddha.
    Good. I prefer Aristotle. Far more grounded in human life.
    And he never talks about "maximizing happiness."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
    Exactly, service to others is not a focus in Nicomachean Ethics. It just doesn't really come up.


    I think you get different perspectives by reading different ethical traditions.

    Aristotle's eleven key virtues are brilliant.

    But he doesn't really have anything similar to the parable of the Good Samaritan, or the Sermon on the Mount.

    And neither Jesus nor Aristotle have anything quite like the eightfold path of The Buddha.
    Aristotle talks about generosity and megalopsychia (the greatness of soul).

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    Nothing is permitted and nothing is proscribed.

    We have that illusion, but in reality,
    life just happens to us
    until it doesn't anymore.

    Learn to find that comforting.
    It removes the pressure.
    Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel. Samuel Johnson, 1775
    Religion....is the opiate of the people. Karl Marx, 1848
    Freedom's just another word for nothin' left to lose. Kris Kristofferson, 1969

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
    Exactly, service to others is not a focus in Nicomachean Ethics. It just doesn't really come up.


    I think you get different perspectives by reading different ethical traditions.

    Aristotle's eleven key virtues are brilliant.

    But he doesn't really have anything similar to the parable of the Good Samaritan, or the Sermon on the Mount.

    And neither Jesus nor Aristotle have anything quite like the eightfold path of The Buddha.
    "Greatness of Soul seems therefore to be as it were a crowning ornament of the virtues: it enhances their greatness, and it cannot exist without them. Hence it is hard to be truly great souled, for greatness of soul is impossible without moral nobility."

    https://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper...ker%20line%3D1

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yakuda View Post
    You mean the rights the founders declared were given to us by the creator? Those rights? The whole basis for our separation from England was the belief that men had rights granted by a higher authority than man. That's how they dared to defy Georgie porgie. It's clear to everyone but a leftist.
    Interesting view considering the Founders were leftist, or did you think revolting against the traditional order was a conservative trait, probably thinks the Radical Republicans were called such cause they leaned right

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    Quote Originally Posted by archives View Post
    Interesting view considering the Founders were leftist, or did you think revolting against the traditional order was a conservative trait, probably thinks the Radical Republicans were called such cause they leaned right
    It's irrelevant. Read the DOI and it's quite straight forward. They rejected the kings authority by making the assertion their rights don't come from him. It's not complicated.
    "Political correctness is fascism pretending to be manners" - George Carlin

    "Education is a system of imposed ignorance" - Noam Chomsky

    "Leftists actually think everyone is as stupid as a leftist." - Yakuda

    "No, Trump isn't a fascist, tatt boy." - moon

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    Quote Originally Posted by BidenPresident View Post
    "Greatness of Soul seems therefore to be as it were a crowning ornament of the virtues: it enhances their greatness, and it cannot exist without them. Hence it is hard to be truly great souled, for greatness of soul is impossible without moral nobility."

    https://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper...ker%20line%3D1
    Moral nobility is just a nebulous buzzword. It doesn't really mean anything because it isn't defined and contextualized.

    I have heard the hypothesis that human ethics and values have always basically been the same from time immemorial, across all cultures and traditions.

    I have now read enough of the western and Asian canon to believe this claim is completely false.


    The Homeric-age Greek values were honor, reputation, courage, glory. What the Greeks would have called tm and kleos.

    Classical and Hellenistic-age Greek values, as seen in Aristotle and Plato were wisdom, justice, temperance, courage. There is nothing in The Republic or Nicomachean Ethics about service to the poor, standing up for the oppressed. The whole point of Aristotle's Nicomachean Ethics is Eudemonia, to create a flourishing life for oneself. That obviously doesn't mean you can engage in murder, rape, and theft. The Aristotelian life is supposed to be one of noble virtue, but the focus is not to be in service to others.

    The Chinese Confucian ethical system tends to be about benevolence, righteousness, proprietary, wisdom.

    The cardinal Christian virtues are faith, charity, universal love, humility.



    Ethics and cultural values have never been static. The way we percieve ethics evolves in time and space.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
    Moral nobility is just a nebulous buzzword. It doesn't really mean anything because it isn't defined and contextualized.

    I have heard the hypothesis that human ethics and values have always basically been the same from time immemorial, across all cultures and traditions.

    I have now read enough of the western and Asian canon to believe this claim is completely false.


    The Homeric-age Greek values were honor, reputation, courage, glory. What the Greeks would have called tm and kleos.

    Classical and Hellenistic-age Greek values, as seen in Aristotle and Plato were wisdom, justice, temperance, courage. There is nothing in The Republic or Nicomachean Ethics about service to the poor, standing up for the oppressed. The whole point of Aristotle's Nicomachean Ethics is Eudemonia, to create a flourishing life for oneself. That obviously doesn't mean you can engage in murder, rape, and theft. The Aristotelian life is supposed to be one of noble virtue, but the focus is not to be in service to others.

    The Chinese Confucian ethical system tends to be about benevolence, righteousness, proprietary, wisdom.

    The cardinal Christian virtues are faith, charity, universal love, humility.



    Ethics and cultural values have never been static. The way we percieve ethics evolves in time and space.
    I gave the context from the source of the text. Quit playing games.

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