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Thread: After Bakhmut [Ukraine War] | The American Conservative

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    This illegal illegitimate regime that runs America is at fault...not me.... they do not represent me and I have long objected to their crimes against humanity.

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    Phoenyx (06-02-2023)

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    We watch Russia - but we must watch what our leaders are up to here in the West
    This illegal illegitimate regime that runs America is at fault...not me.... they do not represent me and I have long objected to their crimes against humanity.

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    This illegal illegitimate regime that runs America is at fault...not me.... they do not represent me and I have long objected to their crimes against humanity.

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    Phoenyx (06-02-2023)

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    Scott Ritter: Sending F-16 to Ukraine Will Backfire

    The Ukrainian air force already flies the SU-27, an aircraft will similar or superior capabilities than the F-16. The Russian air force and air defense network has negated the ability of the Ukrainian SU-27’s to have any meaningful impact on the battlefield. The decision to provide Ukraine with F-16 aircraft is a purely political one, designed to create the impression that the US and its European allies are doing everything possible to give Ukraine a fighting chance in its ongoing conflict with Russia. Indeed, its appearance could be a problem for Ukraine, given the hype surrounding the aircraft. Ukraine may attempt combat operations it is not prepared for under the misguided belief that the F-16 will, in and of itself, held turn the tide of the battle. But it will not. Far from a magic weapon, the F-16 is little more than a poison pill which will result in the deaths of many more Ukrainian aircrew and soldiers as Ukraine continues to wage a war against Russia it cannot win.
    https://sputnikglobe.com/20230525/sc...110582931.html
    This illegal illegitimate regime that runs America is at fault...not me.... they do not represent me and I have long objected to their crimes against humanity.

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    Phoenyx (05-31-2023)

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    In Ask the Expert Ritter says that the Russians who stayed, almost all of them, say of those who left at the start of the Special Military Operation "Good Riddance", they just offloaded the weakest part of their society. Left unsaid is that the Russians dont have to take them back, and if they do come back memories will be long.
    This illegal illegitimate regime that runs America is at fault...not me.... they do not represent me and I have long objected to their crimes against humanity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye10 View Post
    Left unsaid is that the Russians dont have to take them back, and if they do come back memories will be long.
    Presumably you're referring to Donbas, but the judgment applies more generally. Russia will have to live with what Putin has done for a LONG time.

    He miscalculated, thinking he could pull off his "special military operation" quickly and easily. Instead he started a major war. Now there's no going back.


    Russia is a kleptocracy which has been a brutal tyranny for most of its history.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenyx View Post
    I never claimed he was anti-war. I simply pointed out that I found his article by checking out anti-war.com's website and seeing a link to it there.

    I certainly don't think invading Iraq in 2003 was a great idea, but the subject of this thread isn't U.S.'s war in Iraq in 2003, it's of the Ukraine war that's currently ongoing. When it comes to this war, I think his points are quite good.

    If there's anything you disagree with in regards to the article that is the basis of this thread, I'd certainly like to hear any constructive criticisms you may have.
    I’d like to hear what you would consider a fair negotiated settlement to the conflict.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye10 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Nordberg View Post
    Truth is the first casualty in war, followed by real information. Nobody really knows what is going on. When wars are autopsied years after they are don much of the truth comes out. Sadly, it is written by the winners, not the historians. So even that is not really factual. But people in Russia do not want the war. People in Ukraine do not. The wealthy,corporations, and politicians are waging war. War is about money and power.
    You would refuse to tell the truth if your life depended upon it.
    I don't think that was called for. I certainly have my disagreements with Nordberg, but I think he made a fair amount of good points here, as I pointed out in post #44.
    "Trust those who seek the truth, doubt those who find it" - Andre Gide

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenyx View Post
    I don't think that was called for. I certainly have my disagreements with Nordberg, but I think he made a fair amount of good points here, as I pointed out in post #44.
    Boo Hoo.
    This illegal illegitimate regime that runs America is at fault...not me.... they do not represent me and I have long objected to their crimes against humanity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by anonymoose View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenyx View Post
    I never claimed he was anti-war. I simply pointed out that I found his article by checking out anti-war.com's website and seeing a link to it there.

    I certainly don't think invading Iraq in 2003 was a great idea, but the subject of this thread isn't U.S.'s war in Iraq in 2003, it's of the Ukraine war that's currently ongoing. When it comes to this war, I think his points are quite good.

    If there's anything you disagree with in regards to the article that is the basis of this thread, I'd certainly like to hear any constructive criticisms you may have.
    I’d like to hear what you would consider a fair negotiated settlement to the conflict.
    I don't have enough information to be sure what that would look like. However, I do believe that the answer to that question could be found by looking into how we got to where we are now, with the idea of trying to reverse some of the damage. Imagine some is sick. The more you know about what led to them getting sick, the better idea you have of knowing how to get them well. Now, I know things didn't exactly start in 2014, when those behind Euromaidan apparently engaged in a coup against the elected Ukrainian President of the time, Viktor Yanukovych. Nevertheless, I think that's probably a fairly good place to start- that is, having a new look at who was behind it. I think the following article is a good place to start:

    The Hidden Truth About Ukraine, Kiev Euromaidan Snipers Kill Demonstrators. Italian Documentary Bombshell Evidence | globalresearch.ca

    Once the Neo Nazis behind Euromaidan essentially became the new government, this led to more atrocities, such as what happened in Odessa:

    Burned alive: How the 2014 Odessa massacre became a turning point for Ukraine | rt.com


    Anyway, there have been recent peace initiatives by China and Brazil. Scheerpost published an article that gets into this a few days ago:

    When Will US Join Global Call to End Ukraine War? | Scheerpost

    Unfortunately, the U.S. still adamantly refuses to even support calls for a ceasefire, as can be seen from the following antiwar.com article published today:

    Blinken Dismisses Calls for a Ceasefire, Says US Must Build Up Ukraine’s Military | antiwar.com
    "Trust those who seek the truth, doubt those who find it" - Andre Gide

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye10 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenyx View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye10 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Nordberg View Post
    Truth is the first casualty in war, followed by real information. Nobody really knows what is going on. When wars are autopsied years after they are don much of the truth comes out. Sadly, it is written by the winners, not the historians. So even that is not really factual. But people in Russia do not want the war. People in Ukraine do not. The wealthy,corporations, and politicians are waging war. War is about money and power.
    You would refuse to tell the truth if your life depended upon it.
    I don't think that was called for. I certainly have my disagreements with Nordberg, but I think he made a fair amount of good points here, as I pointed out in post #44.
    Boo Hoo.
    Lol :-p. I just think that sometimes we give those who disagree with us too hard of a time. It ends up biting us back, as they frequently proceed to do the same to us.
    "Trust those who seek the truth, doubt those who find it" - Andre Gide

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenyx View Post
    I don't have enough information to be sure what that would look like. However, I do believe that the answer to that question could be found by looking into how we got to where we are now, with the idea of trying to reverse some of the damage.
    No question there were a lot of mistakes made even before 2014, that was just one of many.
    I just finished reading this book, a quick read. You'd like it since it goes along with your narrative.
    Problem w/ correcting past mistakes by the West is that it would ignore serious proximal mistakes made and being made by Russia. They're like a jilted lover who somehow thinks he/she will get their ex back by stalking and harassing which only further alienates the ex.
    Ukraine and Russia are done. And who will rebuild Ukraine no matter who wins? Certainly not Russia.
    I'm now in the process of reading this one. There's no shortage of books on the subject of this conflict. Very complicated.

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    Quote Originally Posted by anonymoose View Post
    No question there were a lot of mistakes made even before 2014, that was just one of many.
    I just finished reading this book, a quick read. You'd like it since it goes along with your narrative.
    Problem w/ correcting past mistakes by the West is that it would ignore serious proximal mistakes made and being made by Russia. They're like a jilted lover who somehow thinks he/she will get their ex back by stalking and harassing which only further alienates the ex.
    Ukraine and Russia are done. And who will rebuild Ukraine no matter who wins? Certainly not Russia.
    I'm now in the process of reading this one. There's no shortage of books on the subject of this conflict. Very complicated.
    Russia is doing the best they have in a very long time. What remain of Ukraine will likely be rebuilt by the Chinese, but that requires the Ukrainians to get their heads out of their asses.
    This illegal illegitimate regime that runs America is at fault...not me.... they do not represent me and I have long objected to their crimes against humanity.

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    The big unknown is how much of Ukraine Russia is going to be forced to destroy before they do as they must.
    This illegal illegitimate regime that runs America is at fault...not me.... they do not represent me and I have long objected to their crimes against humanity.

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    What remains of Ukraine will be neutral, largely demilitarized, and denazified.
    This illegal illegitimate regime that runs America is at fault...not me.... they do not represent me and I have long objected to their crimes against humanity.

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