Is the Universe a quantum fluctuation?

[goat]

Before the invention of the telescope, what empirical evidence did Copernicus have for a heliocentric system? History and philosophy are very important to physics.

[Cypress]

Good point, perhaps, but I can't personally envision anything without something beyond it, even if it's just empty space.
That doesn't mean that some different configuration of realty doesn't exist, of course.
I just can't imagine it, because in my actual experience, everything has always had something on the other side of it.

The human brain is not evolved enough to actually visualize three dimensional curved spacetime. Nobody can. You might as well ask a dog to learn the quadratic formula. We can only describe it mathematically.

[Saint Guinefort]

Most of the good universities are in the blue states probably for a reason.

It's more a philosophical question than a scientific one: are the physical laws eternal, if so why, if not why do they exist and how did they get created?

The Heisenberg Uncertainty principle falls out of the mathematics of waves and fourier transforms. What do you mean by "eternal laws" or how they were created? Is there anything particularly philosophical about 2+2=4? Does it require some special feature of the eternal universe or is it effectively tautological?

[Saint Guinefort]

Before the invention of the telescope, what empirical evidence did Copernicus have for a heliocentric system? History and philosophy are very important to physics.

Even without much of a telescope the planets were tracked. The Ptolemaic system was hyper-complex with epicycles etc to account for the movement of planets in the night sky. Copernicus' system greatly simplified the system.

[goat]

Even without much of a telescope the planets were tracked. The Ptolemaic system was hyper-complex with epicycles etc to account for the movement of planets in the night sky. Copernicus' system greatly simplified the system.

The Mayans had nothing to aid their naked eye and made their calculations off of what they could see moving around in the sky. I'm not sure that counts as empirical evidence yet their calendar proves the accuracy.

[Cypress]

The Heisenberg Uncertainty principle falls out of the mathematics of waves and fourier transforms. What do you mean by "eternal laws" or how they were created? Is there anything particularly philosophical about 2+2=4? Does it require some special feature of the eternal universe or is it effectively tautological?

2+2=4 is only a convention, a construct of the base 10 numeric system we have agreed to use. It's not an eternal truth.

2+2 is equal to 11 in the base 3 system.


A quantum flux that created the universe could seemingly only have happened if the Heisenberg uncertainty principle was in place and preceded it. Which begs the question, why did the Heisenberg uncertainty principle exist before creation? You can't have quantum flux without the principle underlying it in place already. It just a chicken before the egg question

[Doc Dutch]

2+2=4 is only a convention, a construct of the base 10 numeric system we have agreed to use. It's not an eternal truth.

2+2 is equal to 11 in the base 3 system.


A quantum flux that created the universe could seemingly only have happened if the Heisenberg uncertainty principle was in place and preceded it. Which begs the question, why did the Heisenberg uncertainty principle exist before creation? You can't have quantum flux without the principle underlying it in place already. It just a chicken before the egg question

Agreed on human construction vs. "eternal truth". Oxygen has 8 protons, 8 neutrons and 8 electrons in our conventional counting system. It'd still the same number of parts regardless of any other numbering system. That's a universal truth.

[Cypress]

Agreed on human construction vs. "eternal truth". Oxygen has 8 protons, 8 neutrons and 8 electrons in our conventional counting system. It'd still the same number of parts regardless of any other numbering system. That's a universal truth.

It's an open philosophical question as to whether numbers are real, or a convention constructed by our minds.

I think mathmatical concepts like Pi and e are eternal truths, because they represent something fundamental about spatial relationships and rates of change that exist even if you changed their representation to Roman numerals, base 2 numeric symbols, etc.

[Doc Dutch]

It's an open philosophical question as to whether numbers are real, or a convention constructed by our minds.

I think mathmatical concepts like Pi and e are eternal truths, because they represent something fundamental about spatial relationships and rates of change that exist even if you changed their representation to Roman numerals, base 2 numeric symbols, etc.

Convention. While the reality of an oxygen atom is real, our ability to perceive it is a construction.

How do we tell the difference between reality and fantasy? Verification by others and the ability to replicate results.

[goat]

Convention. While the reality of an oxygen atom is real, our ability to perceive it is a construction.

How do we tell the difference between reality and fantasy? Verification by others and the ability to replicate results.

Is the same true for time?

[Doc Dutch]

Is the same true for time?

Yes. Well, except for all the paranoid schizos. They live in their own dimension.

[goat]

Yes. Well, except for all the paranoid schizos. They live in their own dimension.

The reason string theory is still relevant as a science is because all the interesting challenges to relativity come from guys like Tryon. When spacetime is disproven, it will come from an unfunded, independent subfield of string.

[Doc Dutch]

The reason string theory is still relevant as a science is because all the interesting challenges to relativity come from guys like Tryon. When spacetime is disproven, it will come from an unfunded, independent subfield of string.

"There is a fifth dimension beyond that which is known to man. It is a dimension as vast as space and timeless as infinity. It is the middle ground between light and shadow, between science and superstition, and it lies between the pit of man's fears and the summit of his knowledge. This is the dimension of imagination. It is an area we call the Twilight Zone."

[IBDaMann]

He's a Trumper in Libertarian clothing.

Trump is very libertarian, unlike you, Terry. By the way, who do you think you are fooling?

[Lightbringer]

He's a Trumper in Libertarian clothing.

No I'm not. I despise Libertarians almost as much as I despise you.

And, in another thread you referred to the Nashville shooter as s/he. Are you so far fucking gone that you don't know a man from a woman anymore?

That's a rhetorical question, I know you do know the difference you're too much of a fucking coward to call her a she. The latest in a long line of bullshit that makes me believe you're a fucking coward...Max.