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Thread: Biden Says He Has Authority to Challenge Debt Limit

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flash View Post
    He proposed the budget and signed it when passed by Congress. He increased unemployment benefits by $600 a week by executive order and signed the $2.2 trillion CARES ACT which gave everybody stimulus checks.

    As the old saying goes, "Democrats tax and spend and Republicans borrow and spend." Both are bankrupting the country.
    Borrowing is not the budget, dumbass.
    The CARES Act was created by Congress, not Trump.

    Trump signed the bill because it was part of the budget bill, and there were was enough to override the President's veto anyway.
    "The atmosphere is among the factors that determines the Earth's atmosphere." --ZenMode
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  2. #122 | Top
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    Quote Originally Posted by QP! View Post
    No you DID NOT.

    What mechanism would STOP Trump, in a next admin of just spending past the new debt ceiling and demanding they just raise it?

    Cite me the exact mechanism that would bind and stop him so it could not be done. Trump had 3 prior debt ceilings he completely ignored and blew through. What forces him not to do so next time?
    The Constitution of the United States Article 1. Trump does not have the authority to spend anything. Only the House can initiate spending bills. Only Congress has authority to borrow money. There is no such thing as a 'debt ceiling'.
    "The atmosphere is among the factors that determines the Earth's atmosphere." --ZenMode
    "Donald has failed in almost every endeavor he has attempted. " --floridafan
    "Abortion is not a moral issue. " --BidenPresident
    "Propaganda can also be factual." --Flash
    "Even after being vaccinated, you shed virus particles." --Jerome
    "no slavery is forcing another into labor" -archives
    "Evs are much safer from fires" -- Nordberg
    "Abortion has killed no one." -- LurchAddams

  3. #123 | Top
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nordberg View Post
    read the 14th. Then seek out someone who will take the time to explain it to you. You are not cracking up, you are cracked.
    Inversion fallacy.
    "The atmosphere is among the factors that determines the Earth's atmosphere." --ZenMode
    "Donald has failed in almost every endeavor he has attempted. " --floridafan
    "Abortion is not a moral issue. " --BidenPresident
    "Propaganda can also be factual." --Flash
    "Even after being vaccinated, you shed virus particles." --Jerome
    "no slavery is forcing another into labor" -archives
    "Evs are much safer from fires" -- Nordberg
    "Abortion has killed no one." -- LurchAddams

  4. #124 | Top
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    Quote Originally Posted by QP! View Post
    Yes. Thank you making my point.

    As i have stated, our ENTIRE history is one of POTUS Administrations, along with Congress just blowing through the debt ceiling as COngress seems to entirely ignore the Debt Ceiling when setting their budgets to enact the POTUS agenda, knowing the Potus can just ask them to raise the debt ceiling after the fact.

    That is REALITY.

    What is the HYPOTHETICAL is this notion that you are pushing that by simply lowering the debt ceiling now, suddenly the next POTUS and Congress will change their behaviour. That the key to keeping Trump, in his 2016 administration from blowing through the debt ceiling 3 times was to LOWER IT. And like magic, Trump would have said 'well i was prepared to blow thru a higher Debt Ceiling but not a lower one'.


    This is where your brain denies any semblance of logic as NOTHING you have said curtails the past behaviour. There is nothing to bind Trump (or any other POTUS) in 2024 who gets in, with a friendly COngress from blowing thru it again and just demanding it be raised.


    You say i am wrong but the one thing you will NOT do, is present a single thing that would bind and prevent that happening in the next admin in 2024.

    That is because you know you are wrong. You know you got nothing.
    Hallucination. There is no such thing as a 'debt ceiling'.
    "The atmosphere is among the factors that determines the Earth's atmosphere." --ZenMode
    "Donald has failed in almost every endeavor he has attempted. " --floridafan
    "Abortion is not a moral issue. " --BidenPresident
    "Propaganda can also be factual." --Flash
    "Even after being vaccinated, you shed virus particles." --Jerome
    "no slavery is forcing another into labor" -archives
    "Evs are much safer from fires" -- Nordberg
    "Abortion has killed no one." -- LurchAddams

  5. #125 | Top
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmarterthanYou View Post
    nothing there shows what you said. I see 'authorized by law' and I see 'shall have power'...............by appropriate legislation..................but I see nothing that mandates or forces congress to pay it's bills, nor do I see anything that allows the executive to bypass the congress........

    thank you for proving that you don't know the Constitution and that I was right.
    It's amazing how they continue to demonstrate that.

    It comes from denying and discarding the Constitution for so long. They'll quote pieces of it all day long, and discard and deny the entire document.
    "The atmosphere is among the factors that determines the Earth's atmosphere." --ZenMode
    "Donald has failed in almost every endeavor he has attempted. " --floridafan
    "Abortion is not a moral issue. " --BidenPresident
    "Propaganda can also be factual." --Flash
    "Even after being vaccinated, you shed virus particles." --Jerome
    "no slavery is forcing another into labor" -archives
    "Evs are much safer from fires" -- Nordberg
    "Abortion has killed no one." -- LurchAddams

  6. #126 | Top
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    Quote Originally Posted by Into the Night View Post
    Nope. It requires none of it.
    The 14th amendment only specifies that the debt obligation continues (the debt is still recognized).
    Wrong
    4,487

    18 U.S. Code § 2071 - Concealment, removal, or mutilation generally
    44 U.S.C. 2202 - The United States shall reserve and retain complete ownership, possession, and control of Presidential records; and such records shall be administered in accordance with the provisions of this chapter.


    LOCK HIM UP!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarod View Post
    Wrong
    He just plays opposites. He will insult and call names like a child too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarod View Post
    Wrong
    Argument of the Stone fallacy.
    "The atmosphere is among the factors that determines the Earth's atmosphere." --ZenMode
    "Donald has failed in almost every endeavor he has attempted. " --floridafan
    "Abortion is not a moral issue. " --BidenPresident
    "Propaganda can also be factual." --Flash
    "Even after being vaccinated, you shed virus particles." --Jerome
    "no slavery is forcing another into labor" -archives
    "Evs are much safer from fires" -- Nordberg
    "Abortion has killed no one." -- LurchAddams

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nordberg View Post
    He just plays opposites. He will insult and call names like a child too.
    Inversion fallacy.
    "The atmosphere is among the factors that determines the Earth's atmosphere." --ZenMode
    "Donald has failed in almost every endeavor he has attempted. " --floridafan
    "Abortion is not a moral issue. " --BidenPresident
    "Propaganda can also be factual." --Flash
    "Even after being vaccinated, you shed virus particles." --Jerome
    "no slavery is forcing another into labor" -archives
    "Evs are much safer from fires" -- Nordberg
    "Abortion has killed no one." -- LurchAddams

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    Quote Originally Posted by Into the Night View Post
    Borrowing is not the budget, dumbass.
    The CARES Act was created by Congress, not Trump.

    Trump signed the bill because it was part of the budget bill, and there were was enough to override the President's veto anyway.
    They did not have a 2/3 majority to override a veto. Trump wanted a larger stimulus payment and said he would have won Georgia if it passed.

    Trump's executive order did not need congressional approval and he increased unemployment benefits $600 a week which led to many people staying out of work until their benefits expired. And the Payroll Protection Program was full of fraud, waste, and forgiven loans (like to Marjorie Taylor Greene and Matt Gaetz). Trump was as bad as Biden in being fiscally irresponsible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Into the Night View Post
    He posted the link. Go read it. It answers your question.
    he's wrong and he knows it so he's just being a cunt.

    and I see he's now tryingh to move the goalposts, as always...
    "Those who vote decide nothing. Those who count the vote decide everything." Joseph Stalin
    The USA has lost WWIV to China with no other weapons but China Virus and some cash to buy democrats.

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    The 14th does provide a way for Biden to force the issue. However, the Dems are reluctant to use it. They do not want to set a precedent. Biden thinks he can work out a deal. Mccarthy would likely have his speakership threatened by the rightys if he did the right thing. However, if the Dems vote to help him keep his spot, he may act like an adult.

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    There is enough revenue each month to pay for the interest on the debt and no reason to pretend that there isn't unless you are idiots like the 37% that still believe that it's republicans' fault that Biden refused to speak to Republicans about this for Months. The 14th Amendment does not guarantee timely payments, only recognition of one wars' worth of debt. This is nonsense. Nobody is questioning the debt, they are questioning the apportionment of funds that put us even further into debt. This is not an Amendment 14 issue, he knows it, we all know it, even BP knows it.

    If Biden doesn't get the Senate to pick up and vote for the extension passed by Congress for the debt limit, then he would have to direct his Treasurer to pay the interest and, like Obama, he would have to close down portions of the government that he could not pay for. He has no right to take over Congressional duties and powers and he would lose in the SCOTUS.
    Last edited by Damocles; 05-24-2023 at 05:57 PM.
    Excellence is an art won by training and habituation. We do not act rightly because we have virtue or excellence, but rather we have those because we have acted rightly. We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit.
    - -- Aristotle

    Believe nothing on the faith of traditions, even though they have been held in honor for many generations and in diverse places. Do not believe a thing because many people speak of it. Do not believe on the faith of the sages of the past. Do not believe what you yourself have imagined, persuading yourself that a God inspires you. Believe nothing on the sole authority of your masters and priests. After examination, believe what you yourself have tested and found to be reasonable, and conform your conduct thereto.
    - -- The Buddha

    It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
    - -- Aristotle

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    Quote Originally Posted by Damocles View Post
    There is enough revenue each month to pay for the interest on the debt and no reason to pretend that there isn't unless you are idiots like the 37% that still believe that it's republicans' fault that Biden refused to speak to Republicans about this for Months. The 14th Amendment does not guarantee timely payments, only recognition of one wars' worth of debt. This is nonsense. Nobody is questioning the debt, they are questioning the apportionment of funds that put us even further into debt. This is not an Amendment 14 issue, he knows it, we all know it, even BP knows it.

    If Biden doesn't get the Senate to pick up and vote for the extension passed by Congress for the debt limit, then he would have to direct his Treasurer to pay the interest and, like Obama, he would have to close down portions of the government that he could not pay for. He has no right to take over Congressional duties and powers and he would lose in the SCOTUS.
    It is bigger than that. If he allows Congress to determine his political agenda, then we have a Republican government. They are using the debt ceiling as a method of extortion. Biden has to stop it or the debt ceiling will determine our policies. The 14th does give him power. Why should Biden give in to extortion? It says "The validity of the debt of the US, shall not be questioned". Not paying what we owed is certainly doing that. here is the brain of the repub party explaining the debt ceiling.
    Last edited by Nordberg; 05-24-2023 at 10:01 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nordberg View Post
    It is bigger than that. If he allows Congress to determine his political agenda, then we have a Republican government. They are using the debt ceiling as a method of extortion. Biden has to stop it or the debt ceiling will determine our policies. The 14th does give him power. Why should Biden give in to extortion? It says "The validity of the debt of the US, shall not be questioned". Not paying what we owed is certainly doing that. here is the brain of the repub party explaining the debt ceiling.
    This is what Checks and Balances are. I know you don't like the constitution, but this is how it was designed to work. Being elected President does not make you a dictator, even if you have a "pen and a phone". The left is losing this argument. According to polls reported by CNN 60% agree that we should include spending reduction in this debt limit increase.

    https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/23/polit...r%20Washington.

    CNN

    Sixty percent of Americans say Congress should only raise the nation’s debt ceiling if it cuts spending at the same time, according to a new CNN Poll conducted by SSRS, as the government’s June 1 “hard deadline” to avoid economic catastrophe looms large over Washington. Few see President Joe Biden or the Republicans in Congress as acting responsibly in negotiations over the debt limit, with most in both parties more concerned that their side will give up too much than that the United States will default on its debt.
    Excellence is an art won by training and habituation. We do not act rightly because we have virtue or excellence, but rather we have those because we have acted rightly. We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit.
    - -- Aristotle

    Believe nothing on the faith of traditions, even though they have been held in honor for many generations and in diverse places. Do not believe a thing because many people speak of it. Do not believe on the faith of the sages of the past. Do not believe what you yourself have imagined, persuading yourself that a God inspires you. Believe nothing on the sole authority of your masters and priests. After examination, believe what you yourself have tested and found to be reasonable, and conform your conduct thereto.
    - -- The Buddha

    It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
    - -- Aristotle

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