Mass shootings = symptoms of a much worse problem

[BartenderElite]

I hate how both sides react to these. The left is no doubt bad - it's all guns, all the time. But the right is no better. If it's a Muslim - time for a travel ban! If it's a transgender, it's all "see! We told you they were dangerous." Even though both groups account for less than 1% of American mass shootings.

The answer? We're sick as a nation. And this is a symptom. If we had a doctor for countries, we'd be admitted to the emergency room right away. This is like a Stage 4 kind of symptom. We've let things go. We've allowed divisiveness, hate & fear trump the better angels of our nature. We've allowed demagogues to rule the day, and we've let the internet run wild. And guns are PART of the problem, as well. There is no coincidence between the fact that we lead the world in gun ownership, and gun violence. Saying the answer is "more guns" is an incredible disconnect.

I have no answer, but I know where the answers lie: in honest discussion. Not "how can this help my side" knee-jerk reactions. We've gotta stop politicizing this stuff, and think through all aspects of it in an unbiased, critical way. We need real leaders, and not cartoon characters.

Lives depend on this. We have to step up. It is time.

[BidenPresident]

I hate how both sides react to these. The left is no doubt bad - it's all guns, all the time. But the right is no better. If it's a Muslim - time for a travel ban! If it's a transgender, it's all "see! We told you they were dangerous." Even though both groups account for less than 1% of American mass shootings.

The answer? We're sick as a nation. And this is a symptom. If we had a doctor for countries, we'd be admitted to the emergency room right away. This is like a Stage 4 kind of symptom. We've let things go. We've allowed divisiveness, hate & fear trump the better angels of our nature. We've allowed demagogues to rule the day, and we've let the internet run wild. And guns are PART of the problem, as well. There is no coincidence between the fact that we lead the world in gun ownership, and gun violence. Saying the answer is "more guns" is an incredible disconnect.

I have no answer, but I know where the answers lie: in honest discussion. Not "how can this help my side" knee-jerk reactions. We've gotta stop politicizing this stuff, and think through all aspects of it in an unbiased, critical way. We need real leaders, and not cartoon characters.

Lives depend on this. We have to step up. It is time.

Maybe the US deserves it. I think so. We think saying "oops" after killing 750,000 innocent Iraqis makes it okay.

[Bigdog]

Jamaica is one of the most violent countries in the Caribbean. In 2022, there were approximately 52.9 homicides per 100,000 inhabitants in the island nation. This was highest homicide rate in Latin America and the Caribbean that year.Mar 6, 2023

Jamaica has 8.8 guns per 100 citizens.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estima...ita_by_country

The U.S. has 1100% more guns (120.5) per 100 citizens, and a murder rate of 7.8 per 100k

[BartenderElite]

Jamaica is one of the most violent countries in the Caribbean. In 2022, there were approximately 52.9 homicides per 100,000 inhabitants in the island nation. This was highest homicide rate in Latin America and the Caribbean that year.Mar 6, 2023

Jamaica has 8.8 guns per 100 citizens.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estima...ita_by_country

The U.S. has 1100% more guns (120.5) per 100 citizens, and a murder rate of 7.8 per 100k

All you're doing here is trying to find an example to back up "it's not the guns."

Kind of what I was talking about in the OP.

[Bigdog]

All you're doing here is trying to find an example to back up "it's not the guns."

Kind of what I was talking about in the OP.

You blame the gun, I blame the shooter.

[BartenderElite]

You blame the gun, I blame the shooter.

And again - if you read the OP, I do not "blame the gun."

You're basically backing up most of what I said in the OP about the current discourse.

[Bigdog]

And again - if you read the OP, I do not "blame the gun."

You're basically backing up most of what I said in the OP about the current discourse.

And guns are PART of the problem, as well. There is no coincidence between the fact that we lead the world in gun ownership, and gun violence. Saying the answer is "more guns" is an incredible disconnect.

How are you NOT blaming the gun with those statements???

[Yakuda]

I hate how both sides react to these. The left is no doubt bad - it's all guns, all the time. But the right is no better. If it's a Muslim - time for a travel ban! If it's a transgender, it's all "see! We told you they were dangerous." Even though both groups account for less than 1% of American mass shootings.

The answer? We're sick as a nation. And this is a symptom. If we had a doctor for countries, we'd be admitted to the emergency room right away. This is like a Stage 4 kind of symptom. We've let things go. We've allowed divisiveness, hate & fear trump the better angels of our nature. We've allowed demagogues to rule the day, and we've let the internet run wild. And guns are PART of the problem, as well. There is no coincidence between the fact that we lead the world in gun ownership, and gun violence. Saying the answer is "more guns" is an incredible disconnect.

I have no answer, but I know where the answers lie: in honest discussion. Not "how can this help my side" knee-jerk reactions. We've gotta stop politicizing this stuff, and think through all aspects of it in an unbiased, critical way. We need real leaders, and not cartoon characters.

Lives depend on this. We have to step up. It is time.

I agree with a lot of that. Let me ask you a question, do you think there are more guns now than 30-40 years ago? I havent researched it so i don't know. Any idea?

[BartenderElite]

How are you NOT blaming the gun with those statements???

Context. It's always important.

[BartenderElite]

I agree with a lot of that. Let me ask you a question, do you think there are more guns now than 30-40 years ago? I havent researched it so i don't know. Any idea?

I really don't know. Honestly - I am not anti-gun, or anti 2nd amendment. Like I said earlier, I don't know what the answer is. But I think the fact that we lead the world in gun ownership & gun violence should be part of the discussion (just a part).

[Yakuda]

I really don't know. Honestly - I am not anti-gun, or anti 2nd amendment. Like I said earlier, I don't know what the answer is. But I think the fact that we lead the world in gun ownership & gun violence should be part of the discussion (just a part).

Ok. Fair enough. About how much of the problem do you think it might be? I'd say it's less than 50% of the problem.

[cawacko]

I hate how both sides react to these. The left is no doubt bad - it's all guns, all the time. But the right is no better. If it's a Muslim - time for a travel ban! If it's a transgender, it's all "see! We told you they were dangerous." Even though both groups account for less than 1% of American mass shootings.

The answer? We're sick as a nation. And this is a symptom. If we had a doctor for countries, we'd be admitted to the emergency room right away. This is like a Stage 4 kind of symptom. We've let things go. We've allowed divisiveness, hate & fear trump the better angels of our nature. We've allowed demagogues to rule the day, and we've let the internet run wild. And guns are PART of the problem, as well. There is no coincidence between the fact that we lead the world in gun ownership, and gun violence. Saying the answer is "more guns" is an incredible disconnect.

I have no answer, but I know where the answers lie: in honest discussion. Not "how can this help my side" knee-jerk reactions. We've gotta stop politicizing this stuff, and think through all aspects of it in an unbiased, critical way. We need real leaders, and not cartoon characters.

Lives depend on this. We have to step up. It is time.

It's a very legitimate question. Guns play a role but guns have always been around and we didn't have this level of school shootings. Mental health plays a role but not all mental health people shoot up school or buildings and mental health issues aren't new.

Doing a google search turns up some interesting research on those who have studied these shooters and the idea of breakdowns in society that have led up to this. There's no one easy answer unfortunately.

[BartenderElite]

Ok. Fair enough. About how much of the problem do you think it might be? I'd say it's mess than 50% of the problem.

I don't think it's most of the problem. I think problems w/ culture, the "technological age" (for lack of a better description), things like more single-parent homes, our still very poor handling of mental health issues - those are clearly things that have developed over time and are now here in a big way.

As far as guns: I look at a situation like this, and think, 'THIS person should not have been able to get a gun.' Of course that's easy to say after the fact, but there were red flags here. Early identification of these issues has to improve, somehow.

[Yakuda]

Jamaica is one of the most violent countries in the Caribbean. In 2022, there were approximately 52.9 homicides per 100,000 inhabitants in the island nation. This was highest homicide rate in Latin America and the Caribbean that year.Mar 6, 2023

Jamaica has 8.8 guns per 100 citizens.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estima...ita_by_country

The U.S. has 1100% more guns (120.5) per 100 citizens, and a murder rate of 7.8 per 100k

America is far from the most deadly country in the world

[cawacko]

There's a lot out there on this topic but this article resonated with me (and it could be confirmation bias because it makes sense to me)



Is there a valid psychosocial explanation for school shootings?

There is no single answer to the cause of mass school shootings, but it goes much deeper and further than issues of gun control and mental illness


https://www.police1.com/active-shoot...xuj3FVIjvPpDu/