Future of College Sports - NIL/Transfer Portal

[Celticguy]

True

Bob Mckillop at Davidson ran a similar system very effectively for decades. Works well with smart players who are perhaps not as athletic. He loved bringing in Euto players for this. Better skills training than you get in AAU/high school to boot.

[archives]

NIL came about because the FBI got involved in what had been under the table payments to kids so NCAA just allowed it above the table. This has been going on for years and years.

I thought it was because lawsuits over players not receiving compensation under antitrust law, the basketball player from UCLA starting the process seven or eight years ago.

Other than supposed NCAA rules, which were sporadically applied, I don’t think paying college athletes was technically illegal. Surely wasn’t ethical, everyone supposedly playing under the same rules, but not violating any existing law

And as interesting as it has been, I think Princeton falls tonight, Creighton is a discipled team, with three or four days to prepare

[cawacko]

I thought it was because lawsuits over players not receiving compensation under antitrust law, the basketball player from UCLA starting the process seven or eight years ago.

Other than supposed NCAA rules, which were sporadically applied, I don’t think paying college athletes was technically illegal. Surely wasn’t ethical, everyone supposedly playing under the same rules, but not violating any existing law

And as interesting as it has been, I think Princeton falls tonight, Creighton is a discipled team, with three or four days to prepare

It was 100% illegal. (Well technically schools gave players stipends but that was regulated across the board. But coaches got busted for buying kids dinner or a donor buying a kid a drink etc.)

[cawacko]

Not about race, left/right, or any of that, it is simply greed, turning amateur athletics into straight professionalism under the facade of promoting school spirit/reputation/or whatever one calls that rah rah bullshit. Profiting on the alumni/fan zealousness

Ultimately, there is nothing wrong with that, I’d say unethical, pimping the institutions name, but “it’s just different. Point being it has absolutely nothing to do with the school, school’s purpose or principles, and in the end, will hurt post secondary education

The argument against that will be it was amateur for the athletes but not the universities or the coaches. So you can go to an Ivy League model and not give scholarships and make everything more like club sports. But that was never going to happen. (and they will say it’s 100% about race. That’s our world today, colorblind arguments won’t fly.)

You mentioned in a post awhile back not knowing who Ibrahm X Kendi was. He’s the best selling “author” who wrote How To Be An Anti-Racist. You have to understand that mindset/mentality to understand the argument that the amateur model used by the NCAA was racist and why the fight for NIL/transfer portal. Thus why we’ll never go back to the old model.

[Celticguy]

I thought it was because lawsuits over players not receiving compensation under antitrust law, the basketball player from UCLA starting the process seven or eight years ago.

Other than supposed NCAA rules, which were sporadically applied, I don’t think paying college athletes was technically illegal. Surely wasn’t ethical, everyone supposedly playing under the same rules, but not violating any existing law

And as interesting as it has been, I think Princeton falls tonight, Creighton is a discipled team, with three or four days to prepare

Lawsuits would go nowhere for the same reason that player payments were not illegal. They are NCAA rules.

The FBI got involved when one of the player advisors (not agents, more like financial advisors) was committing wire fraud with money that was not his to use from his clients.
And he kept good financial records of all his actions legal and illegal and those included coaches and other athletic dept people, shoe company people etc.

Princeton v Creighton huh ? Princeton are 15 pt dogs to a 3rd place Blue Jay's squad. They should lose on paper certainly but it could be a good game. Princeton has NOTHING to lose so all the pressure is on Creighton to NOT lose top a 15 seed. I'm guessing pretty good game, Tigers beat the spread but yes, lose.

[Celticguy]

It was 100% illegal. (Well technically schools gave players stipends but that was regulated across the board. But coaches got busted for buying kids dinner or a donor buying a kid a drink etc.)

Its not illegal apart from not collecting taxes or that sort of thing.

It goes WAY beyond buying dinners or sweatshirts. Kids were getting 6 figure signing bonuses on top of like "salaries", parents were given houses nearby so they could see their kids play.

[Celticguy]

Princeton v Creighton huh ? Princeton are 15 pt dogs to a 3rd place Blue Jay's squad. They should lose on paper certainly but it could be a good game. Princeton has NOTHING to lose so all the pressure is on Creighton to NOT lose top a 15 seed. I'm guessing pretty good game, Tigers beat the spread but yes, lose.

Princeton down 47-43 at the half.
Creighton to the Elite 8 for the first time in school history 86-75. Just like I said !

[cawacko]

Its not illegal apart from not collecting taxes or that sort of thing.

It goes WAY beyond buying dinners or sweatshirts. Kids were getting 6 figure signing bonuses on top of like "salaries", parents were given houses nearby so they could see their kids play.

No question that it happened but it was 100% illegal to do so. The NCAA may have had selective enforcement but that’s why schools were put on probation, why SMU got the death penalty back in the day etc.

(Years ago I was in Cabo for a buddy’s wedding. We ran into a group of USC football players who were on spring break. I tried to buy them drinks and they wouldn’t accept because it would have been a NCAA violation.)

[Celticguy]

No question that it happened but it was 100% illegal to do so. The NCAA may have had selective enforcement but that’s why schools were put on probation, why SMU got the death penalty back in the day etc.

(Years ago I was in Cabo for a buddy’s wedding. We ran into a group of USC football players who were on spring break. I tried to buy them drinks and they wouldn’t accept because it would have been a NCAA violation.)

if it was illegal, what law was violated ?
if it was illegal, why were there never arrests and charges filed ?
Yes, enforcement was "selective" at best (Joke: NCAA is SO mad at Kentucky MBB that they will hit Bugtussle U with the Death Penalty!).
The government doesn't care about amature athletics.

[cawacko]

if it was illegal, what law was violated ?
if it was illegal, why were there never arrests and charges filed ?
Yes, enforcement was "selective" at best (Joke: NCAA is SO mad at Kentucky MBB that they will hit Bugtussle U with the Death Penalty!).
The government doesn't care about amature athletics.

I'm not an attorney but it's not the government setting these laws its the NCAA, and the Universities are members of the NCAA and agree to follow their bylaws. If the USC player I tried to buy a drink accepted we would have broken NCAA rules, not the government's. I wouldn't be arrested for buying the kid a drink. But that kid could lose eligibility. USC could get probation or other punishments. I could be labeled a booster and told I have to stay away from University events etc.

[archives]

It was 100% illegal. (Well technically schools gave players stipends but that was regulated across the board. But coaches got busted for buying kids dinner or a donor buying a kid a drink etc.)

Illegal according to NCAA rules, which again applied, but I don’t believe technically illegal, violating some existing law

[cawacko]

Illegal according to NCAA rules, which again applied, but I don’t believe technically illegal, violating some existing law

Correct, it's not a violation of government law (I mean I guess technically you could be violating government rules if someone is paying you under the table and you don't report it for tax purposes but that's a separate discussion). But government law doesn't apply here it's the NCAA rules that have authority. As part of the NCAA you agree to follow their rules and they have the power to punish violators.

[Celticguy]

I'm not an attorney but it's not the government setting these laws its the NCAA, and the Universities are members of the NCAA and agree to follow their bylaws. If the USC player I tried to buy a drink accepted we would have broken NCAA rules, not the government's. I wouldn't be arrested for buying the kid a drink. But that kid could lose eligibility. USC could get probation or other punishments. I could be labeled a booster and told I have to stay away from University events etc.

OK thats better. Its all NCAA rules, not laws. No you would receive no arrest warrants, the school would have to report it and NCAA would decide if its a trend or a mistake. THe player would not suffer over a meal (a car might be different). That said LOTS of kids got cars as well as cash and anything else you can imagine.

[archives]

The argument against that will be it was amateur for the athletes but not the universities or the coaches. So you can go to an Ivy League model and not give scholarships and make everything more like club sports. But that was never going to happen. (and they will say it’s 100% about race. That’s our world today, colorblind arguments won’t fly.)

You mentioned in a post awhile back not knowing who Ibrahm X Kendi was. He’s the best selling “author” who wrote How To Be An Anti-Racist. You have to understand that mindset/mentality to understand the argument that the amateur model used by the NCAA was racist and why the fight for NIL/transfer portal. Thus why we’ll never go back to the old model.

No I understand the argument, schools/coaches/media/etc profited off of the college athletics while the athlete got nothing, and considering a large number of these athletes were Black and could really used the money, it had racist overtones

And I already told you my solution, Unionization, allow the athletes to form unions, sign contracts directly with the schools, allow them privy to school budgets, negotiate salaries/benefits, take the secret private million dollar donor out of the picture

[cawacko]

OK thats better. Its all NCAA rules, not laws. No you would receive no arrest warrants, the school would have to report it and NCAA would decide if its a trend or a mistake. THe player would not suffer over a meal (a car might be different). That said LOTS of kids got cars as well as cash and anything else you can imagine.

Players have been receiving illegal benefits forever. It's just a reality. (If you ever watched the ESPN 30 For 30 on college football in the '80's it was wild for what boosters were offering kids.) It's forever a cat and mouse game between the schools, boosters and the NCAA as to what they can get away with.

N.I.L. is at least attempting to bring it above ground.