Grade Inflation

[cawacko]

When I graduated from high school, 4.0 was as high as you could get. I graduated in a class of almost 2,000, I had a 3.9 and I was sixth in my class. So things have changed radically since that time, but that was almost 50 years ago. I had great ACT scores, but I was accepted at every college I applied to.

Exactly, which is why I think so many (older) people have trouble understanding why kids with a 4.2 GPA are getting rejected in multiple places. The whole retaking a test thing was new to me but sounds like its been around for a little bit. I don't know if it's simply a matter of having many more AP classes or what but something has changed. Kids didn't just get that much smarter overnight.

[archives]

Was talking to a buddy today who has two kids in high school, his daughter being a Senior. I asked what she had heard back from the schools she applied to. Now he did say she wants to do some Major that not a lot of people get accepted for (I didn't catch what it was) but nonetheless he gave the list of schools she got wait listed for (decent schools but not Ivy League or Stanford level). Then he mentioned his daughter having a 4.4 GPA. I did a double take.

When I was in school people barely got above a 4.0 and that was only a few kids. Now numerous kids are doing it. When I was coming up I had classmates that went to schools like San Diego State where if you got a 2.0 and could sign your name you were admitted. Now kids with 4.0 GPAs are being turned away from State. Are kids really that much smarter today or is something else going on?

One thing my buddy said was his kids could retake exams if they didn't like their scores. I was like "what?!" I remember taking tests that were half your grade or more and if you didn't do well then sucks for you. I don't know how prevalent retaking tests are across the country but no wonder so many kids have such high GPAs if that's allowed.

I think a couple people here work in academia. Any more insight into this?

I’m a little confused, how does one attain a 4.4 GPA? Based on an alphabetical grading system, isn’t a 4.00 perfect, all straight A’s?

There are often other considerations that go into the colleges’ admissions. Community service is a biggie these days, plus, how did the kid occupy themselves while in high school, ie, working or participating in sports

Plus many schools will wait list prospective students if their test scores are even slightly below the incoming classes scores. They’ll accept the student as sophomores because it doesn’t count towards the average acceptable scores they publish in all the guides

[cawacko]

I’m a little confused, how does one attain a 4.4 GPA? Based on an alphabetical grading system, isn’t a 4.00 perfect, all straight A’s?

There are often other considerations that go into the colleges’ admissions. Community service is a biggie these days, plus, how did the kid occupy themselves while in high school, ie, working or participating in sports

Plus many schools will wait list prospective students if their test scores are even slightly below the incoming classes scores. They’ll accept the student as sophomores because it doesn’t count towards the average acceptable scores they publish in all the guides

I think AP classes allow you to go over a 4.0.

Extra curricular activity has always played a role in University admissions. It's nothing new for today. My friend's daughter has done it all; played sports, student gov't, volunteer work, internships you name it.

But even with AP classes something has changed. I was hoping someone like Flash who works in academia might shed some insight but you hear a lot about grade inflation and it's a real thing.

I became a father late but numerous friends of mine have kids applying for college now and from talking with them the story I shared in the OP is far from an anomaly.

[Flash]

Was talking to a buddy today who has two kids in high school, his daughter being a Senior. I asked what she had heard back from the schools she applied to. Now he did say she wants to do some Major that not a lot of people get accepted for (I didn't catch what it was) but nonetheless he gave the list of schools she got wait listed for (decent schools but not Ivy League or Stanford level). Then he mentioned his daughter having a 4.4 GPA. I did a double take.

When I was in school people barely got above a 4.0 and that was only a few kids. Now numerous kids are doing it. When I was coming up I had classmates that went to schools like San Diego State where if you got a 2.0 and could sign your name you were admitted. Now kids with 4.0 GPAs are being turned away from State. Are kids really that much smarter today or is something else going on?

One thing my buddy said was his kids could retake exams if they didn't like their scores. I was like "what?!" I remember taking tests that were half your grade or more and if you didn't do well then sucks for you. I don't know how prevalent retaking tests are across the country but no wonder so many kids have such high GPAs if that's allowed.

I think a couple people here work in academia. Any more insight into this?

Grades in both high school and college have been increasing for many years while performance has remained stable or declined. Students see an average grade (C) as unacceptable. Universities which have attempted to keep grades down have found their students at a disadvantage when applying to grad, law, or professional schools.

Despite claims about tenure protecting poor teachers, it protects easy teachers at the expense of those with higher standards.

"The student is our customer" is a current mantra. In many large cities students enrolled in universities will flock to local community colleges to take required courses viewed as harder at the university.

In older times it is equivalent to the "gentlemen's C".

https://www.gradeinflation.com/

[cawacko]

Grades in both high school and college have been increasing for many years while performance has remained stable or declined. Students see an average grade (C) as unacceptable. Universities which have attempted to keep grades down have found their students at a disadvantage when applying to grad, law, or professional schools.

Despite claims about tenure protecting poor teachers, it protects easy teachers at the expense of those with higher standards.

"The student is our customer" is a current mantra. In many large cities students enrolled in universities will flock to local community colleges to take required courses viewed as harder at the university.

In older times it is equivalent to the "gentlemen's C".

https://www.gradeinflation.com/

I was listening to a podcast where a professor from Brown was speaking and he said if he even tried to give a kid a C that kid's parents would fly across the country in a heartbeat to be in his office to let him know he's ruining their kids future.

[archives]

I think AP classes allow you to go over a 4.0.

Extra curricular activity has always played a role in University admissions. It's nothing new for today. My friend's daughter has done it all; played sports, student gov't, volunteer work, internships you name it.

But even with AP classes something has changed. I was hoping someone like Flash who works in academia might shed some insight but you hear a lot about grade inflation and it's a real thing.

I became a father late but numerous friends of mine have kids applying for college now and from talking with them the story I shared in the OP is far from an anomaly.

Parents talking about their kids often over interpret their kid’s achievements

SAT overhauls itself ever eight years, and usually increases the value of scores, and AP classes are overvalued

And to show you how peculiar admissions can be, my son, who was accepted at several Ivy League schools, and attended G’town, was waitlisted at BC, and from what we could gather as to why we were led to believe it was because the last thing BC wanted was another Irish kid from the NE

[anonymoose]

I was listening to a podcast where a professor from Brown was speaking and he said if he even tried to give a kid a C that kid's parents would fly across the country in a heartbeat to be in his office to let him know he's ruining their kids future.

When I started LSU as a freshman it was much like what you described S.D. State used to be. Being a state school, all one needed was a h.s. diploma and you were in.
First semester, the freshman dorms were noisy until 10:00 pm.
Second semester you could hear a mouse.
IOW, they had no qualms about flunking out those that weren't prepared for a state flagship university.
Even after I had been in advanced Junior and Senior level courses that were graded on a curve, no more than 10% would earn an 'A', I forgot how many would get B's, etc.. So it actually got harder as I advanced.

Now they have minimum h.s. GPA and ACT requirements for acceptance.
Professional school was even worse. There was no curve. 93 was an 'A', something like 85, 'B', etc. There were several subjects where no one in the class received an 'A'.
And there were some that had to repeat a year, others simply flunked out, as far along as Junior yr, one even Sr year .
Of course that didn't matter so much in professional school. Class ranking was everything for acceptance into a residency program and if one had no interest in a residency, grades other than the required 2.0 to move forward were irrelevant.
As to that girl w/ the 4.0 that had to reapply, her dad tells me they just study old tests now for exams, they see the same questions, and they get A's and B's. Old tests didn't cut it when I attended.

[Flash]

Parents talking about their kids often over interpret their kid’s achievements

SAT overhauls itself ever eight years, and usually increases the value of scores, and AP classes are overvalued

And to show you how peculiar admissions can be, my son, who was accepted at several Ivy League schools, and attended G’town, was waitlisted at BC, and from what we could gather as to why we were led to believe it was because the last thing BC wanted was another Irish kid from the NE

Selective colleges have always tried to recruit students with different backgrounds from different regions of the country--same as affirmative action without the racial element--diversity.

They also have to consider the student's major. If they want a band the music department needs students even if their GPA and SAT are lower than other applicants. The same applies to drama, art, etc. If they went strictly by GPA/SAT the school would have all Asian students in STEM classes. And, of course, many alumni and students want good sports teams.

Selective colleges are still getting very good students, but private schools that are not highly favored have to keep classes somewhat easy to keep students. Accreditation agencies and many states use measures such as retention and graduation rate in funding. Want to retain students? Pass them.

[cawacko]

Parents talking about their kids often over interpret their kid’s achievements

SAT overhauls itself ever eight years, and usually increases the value of scores, and AP classes are overvalued

And to show you how peculiar admissions can be, my son, who was accepted at several Ivy League schools, and attended G’town, was waitlisted at BC, and from what we could gather as to why we were led to believe it was because the last thing BC wanted was another Irish kid from the NE

When you grow up in a world where 4.0 is the highest you can get (and not many got that) and you could get into school's like SDSU with a 2.0 and now see kids with over a 4.0 getting rejected from a place like SDSU it's an eye opener.

On the surface your son's story with BC sounds pretty crazy, even if they were trying to diversify the class (if you get into multiple Ivy's you'd think you'd get into BC). But that's pretty wild.

Does you son like the new basketball hire at G'Town?