JPP Experts

[Into the Night]

Nopers. "Total Organic Carbon (TOC) And It's Measurement"

"Total Organic Carbon Analysis"

Shall I go on?

No. Your religion is full of shit like this. Carbon isn't organic. It's an element.

[Into the Night]

Here's why you are a dishonest piece of shit:

You complain when people post technical stuff you don't understand. You have to go to google and then you think EVERYONE is googling like you are. So when someone TRIES to find something that CAN'T be googled you complain that it is beneath you.

You are a dishonest piece of shit.

And if you actually ARE a scientist you probably suck so bad you are a detriment. Anyone who can't understand basic and simple logic tests is probably not useful in the field.

And while many of the mouthbreathers on here don't know any better, you and I both know the truth. . (But since you are so dishonest you will never admit it.)

You are describing yourself again. Inversion fallacy.

[Into the Night]

LOL. Why don't you shut up, Sybil.

Why don't you stop making shit up about yourself?

Oh...I already know why.

[Quincunx]

Why don't you stop making shit up about yourself?

Oh...I already know why.

[Quincunx]

No. Your religion is full of shit like this. Carbon isn't organic. It's an element.

I love how you just ignore stuff that doesn't comport with your views. LOL.

But then you don't really understand any of this stuff. You're probably as poorly educated as Cypress!

[Quincunx]

He certainly can be. I tend to like his dry sense of humor. You, on the other hand, are boring. Your religion is known to both of us. We've heard it all before.

[IBDaMann]

Nopers. "Total Organic Carbon (TOC) And It's Measurement"

"Total Organic Carbon Analysis"

Shall I go on?

I appreciate your post. You and I have something to discuss.

First, thank you for the references. They gave me a lot to think about.

The first reference makes a solid case to me for having a seemingly contradictory term, i.e.organic carbon. The context is the industry that cares about the source of the carbon and needs a term that doesn't take a full sentence to express. OK, I get it. The example measurements give a big picture overview of reasons one might need to know the source of carbon and the fact that we're talking about commercial products that measure and filter for labs indicates a valid, commercial use ... so I'm sold.

You are the first person to bring this explanation to my attention. Thank you.

You screwed up with the second reference, however. I imagine that you were searching for titles with "organic carbon" in the title, found one and included it, perhaps without having read it. The author, Daniel M Jarvie, is a scheister who doesn't understand how hydrocarbons form in the earth and who doesn't understand the Fischer-Tropsch process, but is nonetheless pretending that oil companies and geologists search for oil based on egregious laymen's misconceptions. I stopped reading after a few sentences.

Your first reference was sufficient and I thank you for it.

[Quincunx]

The first reference makes a solid case to me for having a seemingly contradictory term, i.e.organic carbon.

Just to be clear it isn't some "official chemical definition", it's more of a descriptor. Like I said it is often necessary to know if the carbon you are measuring is from an organic material like a kerogen or a bitumen etc. or if is from CaCO3 (calcium carbonate, eg limestone etc.).

That's the reason for the designation. Otherwise you are 100% correct that all carbon is just plain ol' carbon. This is an "accounting" type of measurement. Where is the carbon you are measuring coming from?

You are the first person to bring this explanation to my attention. Thank you.

My pleasure.

You screwed up with the second reference, however. I imagine that you were searching for titles with "organic carbon" in the title, found one and included it, perhaps without having read it.

No, it simply helps establish that the concept of "organic carbon" is well known in the field.

The author, Daniel M Jarvie, is a scheister who doesn't understand how hydrocarbons form in the earth and who doesn't understand the Fischer-Tropsch process, but is nonetheless pretending that oil companies and geologists search for oil based on egregious laymen's misconceptions. I stopped reading after a few sentences.

Umm, you were wrong then. The author is, indeed, telling you about where petroleum comes from. It comes from the diagenetic and catagenetic alteration of vegetal/algal/bacterial sources buried deeply and exposed to both aerobic and anaerobic conditions as well as heat. The reference to Tissot and Welte in the first paragraph is a good one. That was a major resource for me when I was learning organic geochem. The Tissot Diagram is actually a great "summary":

(SOURCE)

This basically shows you how various organics are formed in the geologic setting. The X-axis tells you about Oxygen/Carbon ratios and the Y-Axis shows you H/C ratios the "paths" show what happens to these ratios as you increase temperature (the dashed lines are "vitrinite reflectance" values which are a proxy for temperature as measured by the reflectance of coal macerals called "vitrinites"). As you increase temperature you see a steady decline in both O and H as these are volatilized away as the carbon is altered. The three "branches" you see relate to the type of organic material. You can also see in the side-graphs where petroleum forms vs where gas forms etc.

This is kind of the core of organic geochemistry.

Your first reference was sufficient and I thank you for it.

No prob.

[Cypress]

QM is the basis of Chemistry. It is the heart of chemistry.

It's shocking that someone with a PhD in "biogeochem" would write this.

Chemistry, first and foremost, is the study of the reactions and nature of bonds between atoms and molecules based on their valence shell electron state.

The quantum properties of fundamental particles like leptons, quarks, and the rest of the particle zoo is firmly is within the project of physics.

Bohr, Schrodinger, Heisenberg, Pauli were all physicists.

If you contacted a university and told them you wanted to do a graduate degree in quantum mechanics, 99 times out of 100 they would refer you to the physics department.

[Quincunx]

It's shocking that someone with a PhD in "biogeochem" would write this.

Chemistry, first and foremost, is the study of the reactions and nature of bonds between atoms and molecules based on their valence shell electron state.

Those bonds are a function of the electrons around the nucleus. As such it is 100% quantum mechanics. Those bonds define how reactions work.

The quantum properties of fundamental particles like leptons, quarks, and the rest of the particle zoo is firmly is within the project of physics.

Quantum is also related to ELECTRONS.

Bohr, Schrodinger, Heisenberg, Pauli were all physicists.

Good you can google.

If you contacted a university and told them you wanted to do a graduate degree in quantum mechanics, 99 times out of 100 they would refer you to the physics department.

Bullshit my friend. Bullshit.

You clearly didn't even take an intro chemistry class if you missed that.

What do you think those orbitals are? How do you think people understand chemical bonds????

Wow.

Just. Wow.

You are far less experienced in chemistry than I even imagined!

[Quincunx]

It's shocking that someone with a PhD in "biogeochem" would write this.

Chemistry, first and foremost, is the study of the reactions and nature of bonds between atoms and molecules based on their valence shell electron state.

The quantum properties of fundamental particles like leptons, quarks, and the rest of the particle zoo is firmly is within the project of physics.

Bohr, Schrodinger, Heisenberg, Pauli were all physicists.

If you contacted a university and told them you wanted to do a graduate degree in quantum mechanics, 99 times out of 100 they would refer you to the physics department.

You don't have any chemistry books anywhere around you? Open one up. You'll find it filled to the brim with QM.

(I am honestly confused why you think physics is somehow wholly separable from chemistry as if that makes a difference. But it is clarifying how astoundingly uneducated you are in this area.)

[anonymoose]

You don't have any chemistry books anywhere around you? Open one up. You'll find it filled to the brim with QM.

(I am honestly confused why you think physics is somehow wholly separable from chemistry as if that makes a difference. But it is clarifying how astoundingly uneducated you are in this area.)

Cypress actually thinks physics is wholly separable from chemistry??!?! I’d like to see a link to that if he did indeed claim it. Wow.

[Cypress]

You don't have any chemistry books anywhere around you? Open one up. You'll find it filled to the brim with QM.

(I am honestly confused why you think physics is somehow wholly separable from chemistry as if that makes a difference. But it is clarifying how astoundingly uneducated you are in this area.)

You said quantum mechanics was the "heart" of the science of chemistry.

Nobody who supposedly has a "biogeochem" PhD would write that.

Chemistry is first and foremost, all about the valence shell electrons, and the reactions and bonds that result from the valence state.

Here's a project for you: starting Monday morning, call ten different universities, and assuming you get someone who knows what they're doing, tell them you want to get a graduate degree in quantum mechanics.

All ten universities are going to ultimately refer you to their physics department, not their chemistry or 'biogeochem' department

[Into the Night]

I love how you just ignore stuff that doesn't comport with your views. LOL.

But then you don't really understand any of this stuff. You're probably as poorly educated as Cypress!

I understand your religion perfectly well. I think Cypress is getting a clue as well.

[Quincunx]

You said quantum mechanics was the "heart" of the science of chemistry.

It is!!!! Seriously. It is how we define the electrons and how the electrons interact. That is the nature of the chemical bond. That is 100% qm.

What do you think it is?

Chemistry is first and foremost, all about the valence shell electrons, and the reactions and bonds that result from the valence state.

OPEN A CHEMISTRY BOOK.

Seriously dude you are so far off on this you are making a joke of yourself. This is kind of shameful.

What do you think chemistry is?????????????? How do you think electrons are understood.