We can't afford NOT TO do single payer health care

[Nordberg]

then why do you praise and support a system that does nothing more than make the health insurance companies wealthier????

That of course is total BS. The other nations pay a fraction of the nation's wealth that we do and they cover everybody. They have better healthcare.

[NiftyNiblick]

A national health service makes medical insurance obsolete except for the wealthy who may want private services anyway--
which is certainly their right.

"Medicare for All" is an answer, but not THE answer.

It's public funding for private services, a second rate choice.
We need public services as in the UK.

[LV426]

I am also an expert on Medicare Advantage. Works just fine. We have the worst outcomes and the lowest life expectancy of any industrialized nation, and we spend more on health care. So an intelligent person would conclude that our system doesn't work. But not you. Do the math.

You don't understand healthcare at all, so you should probably just STFU. Healthcare expenditures are unique, they are not like other market providers, because people can choose to forgo or delay healthcare. Which in the end causes far worse outcomes. We are also far behind the curve in end of life care. Obama suggested that end of life counseling would lower healthcare costs (because it will), and you fucking morons called it death panels. Ignoring, of course, the fact that there are already death panels, insurance companies call it utilization management.

If you want to debate healthcare, bring it on, pal.

Thanks to COVID denialism and this stinking brand of Libertarianism, the US had the largest drop in life expectancy of any nation, and has yet to rebound:

'Live free and die?' The sad state of U.S. life expectancy
Just before Christmas, federal health officials confirmed life expectancy in America had dropped for a nearly unprecedented second year in a row – down to 76 years. While countries all over the world saw life expectancy rebound during the second year of the pandemic after the arrival of vaccines, the U.S. did not.
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-...ife-expectancy

[LV426]

A national health service makes medical insurance obsolete except for the wealthy who may want private services anyway--
which is certainly their right.

"Medicare for All" is an answer, but not THE answer.

It's public funding for private services, a second rate choice.
We need public services as in the UK.

Unlike every other health care system in the world, ours focuses on profits and not outcomes.

We are the only country in the world where life expectancy has declined after the vaccines were introduced.

Our health care system doesn't reward doctors who cure people, it rewards doctors who keep patients sick because treating the symptoms is more profitable than curing the disease.

[NiftyNiblick]

Unlike every other health care system in the world, ours focuses on profits and not outcomes.

We are the only country in the world where life expectancy has declined after the vaccines were introduced.

Our health care system doesn't reward doctors who cure people, it rewards doctors who keep patients sick because treating the symptoms is more profitable than curing the disease.

If we keep medicine in the private sector, it has to behave exactly the same as the rest of the private sector.
Any other expectation would be illogical.

If we want change, we must remove medicine from the private sector and embrace socialized medicine.

[Saint Guinefort]

If we keep medicine in the private sector, it has to behave exactly the same as the rest of the private sector.
Any other expectation would be illogical.

If we want change, we must remove medicine from the private sector and embrace socialized medicine.

In America we sacrifice our children to the Second Amendment on a weekly basis. We consider healthcare something you win like a lottery. We have the most bizarre view of how to do things it beggars the imagination.

[LV426]

If we keep medicine in the private sector, it has to behave exactly the same as the rest of the private sector.
Any other expectation would be illogical.

If we want change, we must remove medicine from the private sector and embrace socialized medicine.

Totally agree.

There are just some parts of the economy that shouldn't be run for profit...health care is one of those. I'd also include education and energy.

Drug companies, medical providers, and insurance companies aren't the ones who start research on new drugs...that is almost always the NIH. Those companies piggyback off the work the NIH does.

Most drug companies spend less than 10% of their budget on R&D, but will spend upwards of 40% of their budget on marketing and advertising.

[Nordberg]

Our system puts the handling cost of healthcare on our companies. Large companies have huge staffs taking care of health insurance. That makes them less competitive.
If you want to change jobs, you have to factor in the healthcare gap. Don't get injured or sick at the wrong time. You may never financially recover.
If you start a company, you have to pay for your own healthcare and possibly that of your employees. That is a big-ticket item. Lots of new companies survive on narrow margins until they get stronger. How many go under from insurance costs, or the owner gets sick or injured?
Health insurance execs make mega millions of dollars. They are hugely profitable. They achieve that by denying the healthcare that you paid for. They hire doctors to find ways to deny coverage
Our system is terrible and demeaning. It costs too much and hurts the people in many ways.
Get sick and try fighting the insurance companies to get them to cover procedures. You live on phones and sending emails to depts, which keep on changing. Those horror stories are common.
The vast majority of personal bankruptcies have a healthcare coverage factor in them. Our system kills families.

[LV426]

Our system puts the handling cost of healthcare on our companies. Large companies have huge staffs taking care of health insurance. That makes them less competitive.
If you want to change jobs, you have to factor in the healthcare gap. Don't get injured or sick at the wrong time. You may never financially recover.
If you start a company, you have to pay for your own healthcare and possibly that of your employees. That is a big-ticket item. Lots of new companies survive on narrow margins until they get stronger. How many go under from insurance costs, or the owner gets sick or injured?
Health insurance execs make mega millions of dollars. They are hugely profitable. They achieve that by denying the healthcare that you paid for. They hire doctors to find ways to deny coverage
Our system is terrible and demeaning. It costs too much and hurts the people in many ways.
Get sick and try fighting the insurance companies to get them to cover procedures. You live on phones and sending emails to depts, which keep on changing. Those horror stories are common.
The vast majority of personal bankruptcies have a healthcare coverage factor in them. Our system kills families.

The system is working exactly as designed...insurance companies profit when they deny claims.

[SmarterthanYou]

Far from it. You can't even see the nuance. You are simply as dumb as a post. Very hard to get through your concrete brain. I want a single payer system that continues to utilize insurance companies for the 'extras'. Medicare for all. Nothing black and white about that, but you can't see it. I doubt you even understand it. So far, you have PROPOSED nothing. You just constantly whine and complain about things you don't like, but you are completely devoid of solutions.

dunning kreuger ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[SmarterthanYou]

That of course is total BS. The other nations pay a fraction of the nation's wealth that we do and they cover everybody. They have better healthcare.

can't help but notice you completely ignored what you are actually doing and went with a socialist talking point.

[Into the Night]

Right now according to the Kaiser Family Foundation, it costs about $22K a year to provide a worker with health insurance.

Thanks to ObamaCare. Thanks, Democrats.

[Into the Night]

Allow me to repeat: You are a fucking moron. Methinks is the word you were looking for. Only a fucking moron uses that archaic construct as "Me thinks."

Your problem seems to be that you do not think. I suspect that is probably because you can't think.

You are describing yourself again, commie.

[Into the Night]

That of course is total BS. The other nations pay a fraction of the nation's wealth that we do and they cover everybody. They have better healthcare.

Lie.

Let's look at our closest neighbor, Canada, for an example, currently a dictatorship with 'universal healthcare'.
* A typical Canadian pays about $6600/yr for healthcare. All of it as taxes. He does not get to choose his health insurance provider. It is communism. At best, he can obtain private augmenting insurance but he MUST pay the premiums (taxes) for government healthcare.
* Canadians often wait six months to receive healthcare, if they receive it at all.
* Canadians are free to purchase private health insurance, and most do, since the government is so lame about it.
* Drugs and equipment in Canada are horribly out of date and poorly maintained.
* There aren't enough doctors and staff, causing errors and poor treatment to accumulate due to overworked staff.
* Canadians still have to pay out of pocket expenses, despite 'everything being covered'.
* Some treatments are not available at all that IS available in the States, despite 'everything being covered'.
* Due to staff shortages, budget shortages, etc., Canada now encourages elderly suicide.

It's fucked up, dude.

[Into the Night]

A national health service makes medical insurance obsolete except for the wealthy who may want private services anyway--
which is certainly their right.

"Medicare for All" is an answer, but not THE answer.

It's public funding for private services, a second rate choice.
We need public services as in the UK.

Communism, and unconstitutional.