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Thread: Bringing the alien life debate back to reality

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Dutch View Post
    Not a biochemist, but from previous posts on the subject it appears that carbon and silicon are the most likely base-elements of life due to how many combinations of molecules can be formed from them.

    Not saying a lifeform couldn't evolve from Uranium, but if it did, it wouldn't look like anything recognizable by humans. Maybe a planet could be "alive", but how could we hope to communicate with a creature whose "seconds" are equal to multiple human generations?
    did someone promise you that you could recognize it?......
    Isaiah 6:5
    “Woe to me!” I cried. “I am ruined! For I am a man of unclean lips, and I live among a people of unclean lips, and my eyes have seen the King, the Lord Almighty.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by PostmodernProphet View Post
    did someone promise you that you could recognize it?......
    No. Did someone promise you that you couldn't, Pmp? Even your desire to be evil doesn't prevent you from knowing God gave mankind a brain with the expectation all people would use it. The entire Genesis story of the Tree of Knowledge is not about sin, but mankind's exit from the bliss of ignorance into the freedom and pain of knowledge. The Powers That Be of 325BC chose the common story for you, the victim of asking too many fucking questions. To help themselves, of course. Those in control want to maintain it by shaping the fears of the population including angry dumbasses like yourself. LOL

    Trumpers. Can't love'em and can't kill'em.

    Examples of a more likely Garden of Eden scenario:



    You're a conspiracy theorist, here's the true story that the fearmongers don't want you to see:
    The True Adam and Eve Story

    God created the Garden and put the Tree of Knowledge in the middle. Then he created all the animals to live in the Garden along with humans. God let the humans have dominion over the Garden but warned that the Tree of Knowledge would make them forever unhappy if they ate from it. Eating from it would make them self-aware, become overly curious and be forever unhappy.

    Adam was a bit of a dumbass and meekly complied, but Eve was a take-charge kinda gal and was already curious. Eventually she was curious enough to taste from the Tree of Knowledge. Awareness flooded through her like a wave. It both saddened her and gladdened her. Wanting to share this with Adam, she offered him a taste too. Adam, being a bit of a dumbass, would eat anything Eve gave. He, too, became self-aware.

    God didn't throw Adam and Eve out of the Garden, they left like fledgling birds leaving a nest. God smiled.
    God bless America and those who defend our Constitution.

    "Hatred is a failure of imagination" - Graham Greene, "The Power and the Glory"

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    Quote Originally Posted by PostmodernProphet View Post
    did someone promise you that you could recognize it?......
    We know how to recognize neutrinos and the charm quark. I'm pretty sure we could figure out how to recognize self replicating biological life.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PostmodernProphet View Post
    an intelligent creature on a methane based planet a million light years from here would probably consider that irrelevant.......
    A million light years?

    All we have to do is go to Titan to see if methane lakes can host biological life.

    Methane is a terrible solvent compared to water, and liquid methane only exists at subfreezing temperature, when the chemical kinetics to support metabolism would almost certainly be extremely unlikely.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
    Methane is a terrible solvent compared to water, and liquid methane only exists at subfreezing temperature, when the chemical kinetics to support metabolism would almost certainly be extremely unlikely.
    From THIS ARTICLE:

    Life could develop strategies to overcome the low solubility of organics in liquid methane and use catalysts to accelerate biochemical reactions despite the low temperature
    (Emphasis added).

    You're right that the temp is pretty low (95K = -178C) which would yield pretty slow reaction rates. The authors of the article propose the use of catalysts to facilitate these reactions:

    Although we have shown here that the energetics of methane-based life on Titan may be favorable there are two important difficulties to consider related to such life forms. First, the low temperatures imply very low rates of reaction. However by the use of catalysts life can speed up any thermodynamically favorable reaction. (IBID)
    The authors also discuss the problems related to solubility of organics in liquid methane but they also propose a mechanism utilizing large surface area for a given volume for the life forms that could still make use of "sparse solubility" as they say.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by PostmodernProphet View Post
    an intelligent creature on a methane based planet a million light years from here would probably consider that irrelevant.......
    A million light years?

    All we have to do is go to Titan to see if methane lakes can host biological life.

    Methane is a terrible solvent compared to water, and liquid methane only exists at subfreezing temperature, when the chemical kinetics to support metabolism would almost certainly be extremely unlikely.
    A million light years is about halfway to Andromeda. In between is a whole lot of nuthing. Even the Magellanic Clouds are less than 210K miles from the Milky Way galaxy.

    https://www.sciencenews.org/article/...ion-simulation
    God bless America and those who defend our Constitution.

    "Hatred is a failure of imagination" - Graham Greene, "The Power and the Glory"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    This is sort of an odd response.

    I don't want to assume anything. Is your contention that in the vastness of the universe, where there are trillions of stars and even more planets - the only life anywhere is on earth?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
    A million light years?

    All we have to do is go to Titan to see if methane lakes can host biological life.

    Methane is a terrible solvent compared to water, and liquid methane only exists at subfreezing temperature, when the chemical kinetics to support metabolism would almost certainly be extremely unlikely.
    The main differences between a methane lake on Titan or Europa and on Earth is both the time and space elements...neither of which adequately explain "the spark of life".
    God bless America and those who defend our Constitution.

    "Hatred is a failure of imagination" - Graham Greene, "The Power and the Glory"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Dutch View Post
    The main differences between a methane lake on Titan or Europa and on Earth is both the time and space elements...neither of which adequately explain "the spark of life".
    I think Titan is super cool, but the thought that methane could act as a medium for life is pretty implausible.

    Liquid methane isn't polar like the water molecule, rendering it pretty ineffective at dissolving the salts and ions neccessary for metabolism and cell function. And because methane is not polar, it can only exist as a liquid at extreme subfreezing temperature, making chemical reactions too slow to support any life we conceivably would recognize.


    I thought the million light year comment was pretty funny to, given that the Milky Way is only about 100k light years across it's longest dimension.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
    I think Titan is super cool, but the thought that methane could act as a medium for life is pretty implausible.

    Liquid methane isn't polar like the water molecule, rendering it pretty ineffective at dissolving the salts and ions neccessary for metabolism and cell function. And because methane is not polar, it can only exist as a liquid at extreme subfreezing temperature, making chemical reactions too slow to support any life we conceivably would recognize.


    I thought the million light year comment was pretty funny to, given that the Milky Way is only about 100k light years across it's longest dimension.
    Not a biochemist, nor do I have a degree of one to fake...at the moment, but carbon seems to be the best candidate with methane being a back up...although I don't know if higher life forms could evolve in such a climate/medium even given a few billion years.
    God bless America and those who defend our Constitution.

    "Hatred is a failure of imagination" - Graham Greene, "The Power and the Glory"

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    Quote Originally Posted by BartenderElite View Post
    This is sort of an odd response.

    I don't want to assume anything. Is your contention that in the vastness of the universe, where there are trillions of stars and even more planets - the only life anywhere is on earth?
    Trump Dummy has a limited amount of time to do his drive-by posting before he has more important things to do. LOL

    Yesterday, 23 posts in 31 minutes. Last Saturday, 14 posts in 42 minutes* and the previous Monday, 84 posts from 0932 for the next five hours.


    BTW, A sphere passing through Flatland.



    *big words slow him down.
    God bless America and those who defend our Constitution.

    "Hatred is a failure of imagination" - Graham Greene, "The Power and the Glory"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Dutch View Post
    Not a biochemist, nor do I have a degree of one to fake...at the moment, but carbon seems to be the best candidate with methane being a back up...although I don't know if higher life forms could evolve in such a climate/medium even given a few billion years.
    I appreciate the candor and for not faking a biogeochem degree.

    I'm not a biochemist either, I just read a lot about the planetary sciences because a lifetime of Star Trek!

    Titan is interesting enough as a planetary body to send some more landing craft, irrespective of methane's capacity to be a medium for life.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Dutch View Post
    Not a biochemist, nor do I have a degree of one to fake...at the moment, but carbon seems to be the best candidate with methane being a back up...although I don't know if higher life forms could evolve in such a climate/medium even given a few billion years.
    Methane contains carbon. The idea is methane as the "solvent" (taking the place of water like we use here on earth). That's why there's the discussion of extremely low temperatures and extremely high pressures as well as the solubility of other compounds in the liquid methane.

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    The headline is misleading but:

    Scientists Have Figured Out How to Create Wormholes For Transportation Across Space
    https://autos.yahoo.com/scientists-f...193000684.html
    This illegal illegitimate regime that runs America is at fault...not me.... they do not represent me and I have long objected to their crimes against humanity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
    I appreciate the candor and for not faking a biogeochem degree.

    I'm not a biochemist either, I just read a lot about the planetary sciences because a lifetime of Star Trek!

    Titan is interesting enough as a planetary body to send some more landing craft, irrespective of methane's capacity to be a medium for life.

    Notice that even Perry the Putz didn't go that far like anymouse. LOL

    Cool video. I remember the mission but hadn't seen the video.

    NASA has a few launches on the schedule: https://www.nasa.gov/launchschedule/

    I thought there was another one soon to arrive at Jupiter or Saturn but didn't see it.
    God bless America and those who defend our Constitution.

    "Hatred is a failure of imagination" - Graham Greene, "The Power and the Glory"

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