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Thread: Einstein and Bohr Redefine Reality

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    Quote Originally Posted by evince View Post
    Science is the best information we have of the physical world at any given moment



    That is its main value to mankind
    In principle, I tend to agree.

    The interesting question that's been on the table for a couple centuries is if science is giving us a true picture of nature and reality, or whether it's just describing our phenomenological experiences with nature.

    The preeminent German physicist Ernst Macht wrote that space, time, motion, mass, force, and energy were all names of relationships. Physics describes relationships. It does not reveal ultimate realities.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Perry Phimosis View Post
    Since it's an open debate it's probably best to just tell everyone that no one should discuss it and they should just let you list authorities in long unending copy-pastes. Then Doc can approve your posts and it's all cool.
    About all that happens on his threads.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
    Heisenberg’s acausal matrix mechanics and Schrödinger’s causal-deterministic wave mechanics proved to be intertranslatable.
    Quote Originally Posted by Perry Phimosis View Post
    Would anyone on here be able to translate this sentence? Anyone? No, I didn't think so. I'm at a loss myself.
    The story I've read is that Heisenberg and Schrodinger independently came up with different mathmatical treatments of the quantum wave function, and both had perfectly adequate predictive power.

    But they both can't be true and certain depictions of reality. They both can't be right.

    That is an example of this long standing debate in philosopy of science. Do scientific theories represent reality as it really is? Or does they only represent relationships of our experiences with nature

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    Quote Originally Posted by Perry Phimosis View Post
    Since it's an open debate it's probably best to just tell everyone that no one should discuss it and they should just let you list authorities in long unending copy-pastes. Then Doc can approve your posts and it's all cool.
    So if your goal on this thread is to insult me and indulge your petty grievances, why would I take my time to read your posts and engage you?

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    Quote Originally Posted by BidenPresident View Post
    About all that happens on his threads.
    Cut and paste and citations to experts happens about ten thousand times a day on this board.

    Your threads almost always include a copy and paste from some article.

    I am interested is discussing the ideas of the greatest minds in science and philosopy. I don't care what your or Perry PhD's ideas on quantum mechanics are. You all don't have any original ideas about it. None. Nada. Zip. What we have are the various ideas of subject matter experts we can discuss and evaluate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
    The story I've read is that Heisenberg and Schrodinger independently came up with different mathmatical treatments of the quantum wave function, and both had perfectly adequate predictive power.
    They apparently are both equivalent.

    Quote Originally Posted by APS
    Shortly after Heisenberg came up with his matrix-based quantum mechanics, Erwin Schrödinger developed his wave formulation. The absolute square of Schrödinger’s wave function was soon interpreted as the probability of finding a particle in a certain state. Schrödinger’s wave formulation, which he soon proved was mathematically equivalent to Heisenberg’s matrix methods, became the more popular approach, partly because physicists were more comfortable with it than with the unfamiliar matrix mathematics. (HERE)
    (Emphasis added)

    But they both can't be true and certain depictions of reality. They both can't be right.
    Actually if they are equivalent they can both be true. One is based in matrices the other based in wave functions.

    It seems that the value of Heisenberg's matrix approach was that it led to the Uncertainty Principle.

    That is an example of this long standing debate in philosopy of science. Do scientific theories represent reality as it really is? Or does they only represent relationships of our experiences with nature
    I am not entirely certain this would be a good example of two competing theories that are mutually exclusive. It really looks more like a framing difference.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
    I don't care what your or Perry PhD's ideas on quantum mechanics are.
    But it would help if you had a bit more chemistry under your belt. I understand it is not required for a BS in geophysics but it might help you discuss rather than just quote.

    You all don't have any original ideas about it. None. Nada. Zip.
    Nor do you. You appear further hampered by having even less chemistry knowledge in general.

    What we have are the various ideas of subject matter experts we can discuss and evaluate.
    How on earth do you propose to discuss things you don't understand? I'm not saying I understand it any better than you but at least I'm willing to talk about it. All you ever do is list references. You confuse a bibliography for a text.

    In reality 99% of your posts and threads are little more than you showing off by quoting people about things you don't really understand. And when someone dares try to talk to you about it in detail you run away. And then you wait for Doc to show up on the thread and support you at every turn. That way it looks like you get the support you so desperately want for having zero technical insight of your own.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Perry Phimosis View Post


    How on earth do you propose to discuss things you don't understand? I'm not saying I understand it any better than you but at least I'm willing to talk about it. All you ever do is list references. You confuse a bibliography for a text.
    The sad part. He thinks writing that Plato was an ancient Greek make him a Greek scholar.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Perry Phimosis View Post
    Since it's an open debate it's probably best to just tell everyone that no one should discuss it and they should just let you list authorities in long unending copy-pastes. Then Doc can approve your posts and it's all cool.
    So if your goal on this thread is to insult me and indulge your petty grievances, why would I take my time to read your posts and engage you?
    No "if". That's exactly what Jank/Perry the Putz is doing.
    God bless America and those who defend our Constitution.

    "Hatred is a failure of imagination" - Graham Greene, "The Power and the Glory"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Perry Phimosis View Post
    In reality 99% of your posts and threads are little more than you showing off by quoting people about things you don't really understand. And when someone dares try to talk to you about it in detail you run away. And then you wait for Doc to show up on the thread and support you at every turn. That way it looks like you get the support you so desperately want for having zero technical insight of your own.
    Very true. He has been doing it for years.

    And...oh boy, Doc just showed up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Dutch View Post
    No "if". That's exactly what Jank/Perry the Putz is doing.
    And you show up...JUST LIKE CLOCKWORK.

    now get busy giving "Thanks" ratings to all of Cypress's posts. Just like usual.


    That's what a sock does.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Perry Phimosis View Post
    But it would help if you had a bit more chemistry under your belt. I understand it is not required for a BS in geophysics but it might help you discuss rather than just quote.



    Nor do you. You appear further hampered by having even less chemistry knowledge in general.



    How on earth do you propose to discuss things you don't understand? I'm not saying I understand it any better than you but at least I'm willing to talk about it. All you ever do is list references. You confuse a bibliography for a text.

    In reality 99% of your posts and threads are little more than you showing off by quoting people about things you don't really understand. And when someone dares try to talk to you about it in detail you run away. And then you wait for Doc to show up on the thread and support you at every turn. That way it looks like you get the support you so desperately want for having zero technical insight of your own.
    You sound like you're in high school.

    To long to read and to full of petty grievances and lingering resentments to place any stock in

    Mental health counseling is your best bet for latent petty grievances.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Perry Phimosis View Post
    And you show up...JUST LIKE CLOCKWORK.

    now get busy giving "Thanks" ratings to all of Cypress's posts. Just like usual.

    That's what a sock does.
    I knew that would attract your attention. BTW:
    Quote Originally Posted by Perry Phimosis View Post
    ...but all that is science so we won't discuss it on here. Let's just hack it out with IBDaMan because he doesn't threaten to actually talk about REAL science.
    IIrony

    You constantly complain that others don't discuss science but you never hold yourself to the same standard, which is why you're a putz, Perry.
    God bless America and those who defend our Constitution.

    "Hatred is a failure of imagination" - Graham Greene, "The Power and the Glory"

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    Quote Originally Posted by BidenPresident View Post
    Very true. He has been doing it for years.

    And...oh boy, Doc just showed up.
    The topic of the thread is not your and Perry PhD's petty resentments. You have yet to even address the topic which interested me -->

    Quote Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
    The open question is whether the claims of scientism are true.

    "Scientism: The belief that science is the only way of knowing what's true or real"


    That's been an open debate for the better part of 400 years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
    You sound like you're in high school.
    Isn't it funny that the post I did on the science you avoid. But you ALWAYS engage on this type of post.

    hmmmm.

    To long to read and to full of petty grievances and lingering resentments to place any stock in
    You don't seem like you actually have any science background.

    Why do you think people will be impressed with your pitiful "name dropping" game? Is that how you got your "geology degree"?

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