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    Default EV's now more expensive in time and money to refuel than ICE vehicles

    In a more comprehensive study, the Anderson Economic Group did a multi-year study of the costs to charge an EV versus an ICE vehicle. The EV loses, particularly on the cost in time to charge it.

    Real-World Electric Vehicle Fueling Costs May Surprise New EV Drivers

    The research found that fueling an EV is often more expensive than fueling an ICE vehicle. It further found that fueling costs are far more variable for EVs. The authors go on to note the significant time costs imposed on EV drivers as a result of both inadequate infrastructure and wait times associated with fueling, which can be five to ten times the cost for ICE drivers.
    https://www.andersoneconomicgroup.co...ew-ev-drivers/

    https://www.andersoneconomicgroup.co...ce-vehicles-2/

    https://www.andersoneconomicgroup.co..._2ed4-5-22.pdf

    So, when a dispassionate group without an agenda does a very thorough analysis of the costs, the EV loses again.

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    What? Joke Communist and the rest of the EV true believers aren't refuting this? Can it be their arguments in favor of EVs are all tissue thin bullshit?

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    Quote Originally Posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
    What? Joke Communist and the rest of the EV true believers aren't refuting this? Can it be their arguments in favor of EVs are all tissue thin bullshit?
    Todays EV's are in their infancy. Costs will come down, batteries will improve and charging times will be reduced.

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    Quote Originally Posted by floridafan View Post
    Todays EV's are in their infancy. Costs will come down, batteries will improve and charging times will be reduced.
    Bullshit. EV's have been around for nearly 150 years now, and they never worked compared to ICE vehicles. If they did, they'd have already been in the market. Sure, the technology has gotten better, but it hasn't bested the alternatives. Instead, today, it's only the radical Leftist greentards talking government into massive subsidies and draconian mandates that is allowing them to make any headway at all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
    Bullshit. EV's have been around for nearly 150 years now, and they never worked compared to ICE vehicles. If they did, they'd have already been in the market. Sure, the technology has gotten better, but it hasn't bested the alternatives. Instead, today, it's only the radical Leftist greentards talking government into massive subsidies and draconian mandates that is allowing them to make any headway at all.
    It's no different than personal computers which now sell for a fraction of what they did 15 years ago and are far more sophisticated. HD TV's were costing in the thousands now far better are available for a few hundred dollars.
    It's happening already, much cheaper alternatives to Tesla are already on the market.

    You just refuse to accept any progress.

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    Quote Originally Posted by floridafan View Post
    It's no different than personal computers which now sell for a fraction of what they did 15 years ago and are far more sophisticated. HD TV's were costing in the thousands now far better are available for a few hundred dollars.
    It's happening already, much cheaper alternatives to Tesla are already on the market.

    You just refuse to accept any progress.
    Wrong. PC's were expensive until IBM changed one thing about them: IBM built one with open architecture. The IBM 8088 PC computer revolutionized not the internal components. Those were off-the-shelf run of the mill ones used more or less by every manufacturer. What changed was IBM made the operating system and source code open sourced. That meant anybody that wanted to develop software for it could do so free of royalties that other manufacturers charged exorbitantly for.
    All of a sudden there was a massive increase in applications and uses for a PC due to the software that was now available. It creamed all the smaller, proprietary manufacturers. It also would put IBM ultimately out of the PC business, but it revolutionized small computers.

    Unlike computers where a true revolution in design occurred, battery cars today are not that far removed from earlier ones. Sure, the Edison of 1912 was simpler, but it's essentially the same drive train that a modern EV has.



    There's nothing innovative about a modern EV. That's why they fail in the market without the government putting their proverbial thumb on the scale to force people into buying them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by floridafan View Post
    It's no different than personal computers which now sell for a fraction of what they did 15 years ago and are far more sophisticated. HD TV's were costing in the thousands now far better are available for a few hundred dollars.
    It's happening already, much cheaper alternatives to Tesla are already on the market.

    You just refuse to accept any progress.
    You are trying to bullshit us and say that a PC that I buy today for a few hundred dollars isnt far better than what cost thousands a decade ago? A PC printer today that costa about $100 is 10 times better than what was available for many hundreds more.
    Then we have this:

    American car shoppers appear to have discovered electric vehicles. After a decade of slow but steady sales growth, electric vehicle registrations in the U.S. shot up 60 percent in the first quarter of 2022, even as overall new car registrations dropped 18 percent, per a report by Automotive News that used data collected by financial data firm Experian. It’s the latest indication that domestic EV acceptance may have turned some important but invisible corner recently.

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    Quote Originally Posted by floridafan View Post
    It's no different than personal computers which now sell for a fraction of what they did 15 years ago and are far more sophisticated.
    False equivalency fallacy. A personal computer is not a car nor a battery.
    Quote Originally Posted by floridafan View Post
    HD TV's were costing in the thousands now far better are available for a few hundred dollars.
    It's happening already, much cheaper alternatives to Tesla are already on the market.
    False equivalency fallacy. A TV or a display is not a car nor a battery.
    Quote Originally Posted by floridafan View Post
    You just refuse to accept any progress.
    The Li-ion battery was developed in the mid-70's. It has not changed. The chemistry is the same. The battery produces 3.158 A-h per mole of lithium. You cannot change that.
    The long charging time is part of the life of EVs. You cannot change that without further damaging the battery.
    The cost of lithium that is rising is a commodity item. It causes ALL EVs to be more expensive. You cannot change that.

    What 'progress'??
    "The atmosphere is among the factors that determines the Earth's atmosphere." --ZenMode
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    "Evs are much safer from fires" -- Nordberg
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    Quote Originally Posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
    Bullshit. EV's have been around for nearly 150 years now, and they never worked compared to ICE vehicles. If they did, they'd have already been in the market. Sure, the technology has gotten better, but it hasn't bested the alternatives. Instead, today, it's only the radical Leftist greentards talking government into massive subsidies and draconian mandates that is allowing them to make any headway at all.
    What does the beginning of the automobile age have to do with today.? The early cars set speed records but the technology was not competitive regarding range and cost. Once they were rethought, they found how much better they are. They are improving rapidly in range and cost. they already are ahead of ICEs in speed. The time of ICEs is ending rapidly.
    Here are the ev ICE cost comparisons . You are way off,. The cost of an average ICE and operation is 8,691 per year. In Oregon, an EV yearly cost is 2,474. In Mich, the most expensive is 5.076.
    https://www.self.inc/info/electric-c...gas-cars-cost/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nordberg View Post
    What does the beginning of the automobile age have to do with today.? The early cars set speed records but the technology was not competitive regarding range and cost. Once they were rethought, they found how much better they are. They are improving rapidly in range and cost. they already are ahead of ICEs in speed.
    Gasoline cars beat the electric cars in speed and in endurance. Another reason they became popular.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nordberg View Post
    The time of ICEs is ending rapidly.
    Nope. Less than 1% of the cars on the road are EVs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nordberg View Post
    Here are the ev ICE cost comparisons . You are way off,. The cost of an average ICE and operation is 8,691 per year. In Oregon, an EV yearly cost is 2,474. In Mich, the most expensive is 5.076.
    https://www.self.inc/info/electric-c...gas-cars-cost/
    Argument from randU fallacy. False authority fallacy. Special pleading fallacy. You are STILL ignoring higher maintenance costs, costs of the vehicle, long charge times, costs to expand generating and distribution capacity, costs of energy waste (EVs use about twice the energy of a gasoline car of similar size going the same distance, when you factor in the discharge AND charge cycle).

    You are also still locked in your paradox. You are being irrational.
    "The atmosphere is among the factors that determines the Earth's atmosphere." --ZenMode
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    Quote Originally Posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
    Bullshit. EV's have been around for nearly 150 years now, and they never worked compared to ICE vehicles. If they did, they'd have already been in the market. Sure, the technology has gotten better, but it hasn't bested the alternatives. Instead, today, it's only the radical Leftist greentards talking government into massive subsidies and draconian mandates that is allowing them to make any headway at all.
    EV have been here for150 years, aren't you stretching the facts here just a bit?????
    Lock Him Up

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trumpet View Post
    EV have been here for150 years, aren't you stretching the facts here just a bit?????
    Camille Faure in 1881 made the electric vehicle possible, and what was probably the first, a tricycle, ran in Paris in 1881.
    https://www.britannica.com/technolog...ic-automobiles

    Sorry, I was off a bit. It was only 142 years...

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    Quote Originally Posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
    Bullshit. EV's have been around for nearly 150 years now, and they never worked compared to ICE vehicles. If they did, they'd have already been in the market. Sure, the technology has gotten better, but it hasn't bested the alternatives. Instead, today, it's only the radical Leftist greentards talking government into massive subsidies and draconian mandates that is allowing them to make any headway at all.
    The problem with the EVs are numerous, not the least of which is the power to weight ratio problem. Batteries are heavy (even Li-ion batteries!), and take away from useful load. Add to that the inconvenience of long charging times, costs, and energy inefficiency, and you can see why gasoline cars are predominant.

    Even with golf carts the gasoline powered cart is predominant. You can see it at golf courses and at retirement communities such as The Villages in Florida.
    floridafan and Nordberg is just ignoring all of it.
    "The atmosphere is among the factors that determines the Earth's atmosphere." --ZenMode
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    Quote Originally Posted by floridafan View Post
    Todays EV's are in their infancy. Costs will come down, batteries will improve and charging times will be reduced.
    The Li-ion battery is the lightest battery around. The chemistry on this battery does not change. It takes one mole of lithium to provide 3.158 A-h. No matter how big or how small you build the batteries themselves, this number doesn't change. You can make it as one big battery or use several little batteries. The number does not change.
    "The atmosphere is among the factors that determines the Earth's atmosphere." --ZenMode
    "Donald has failed in almost every endeavor he has attempted. " --floridafan
    "Abortion is not a moral issue. " --BidenPresident
    "Propaganda can also be factual." --Flash
    "Even after being vaccinated, you shed virus particles." --Jerome
    "no slavery is forcing another into labor" -archives
    "Evs are much safer from fires" -- Nordberg
    "Abortion has killed no one." -- LurchAddams

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    Quote Originally Posted by floridafan View Post
    Todays EV's are in their infancy. Costs will come down, batteries will improve and charging times will be reduced.
    Great! Get back to us when you can recharge your EV in the same amount of time it takes for me to fill my tank.
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