Biden didn't "self-report" classified-material mishandling -- he got caught

[Jarod]

I am not assuming anything. I am using the information provided in the articles. And I am not assuming I am coming to a logical conclusion from the information provided.

What we know.
1. Documents were illegally kept at Biden's house since the time he was in the Senate.
2. Senators do not have access to the material but in one place (a SCIF in the basement of the Capitol).
3. The rules of that SCIF are documented.
4. If others brought the documents with them to his house it was illegal (2003 Classified materials and handling EO signed by Bush and the law it refers to both list this as illegal).
5. If he did not report them for bringing the documents to his house it was illegal (Same law as before).
6. If he allowed them to leave the documents at his house it was illegal. (Same law as before).
7. It is unlikely that others brought the documents to his house. (simple conclusion from the information provided, not an "assumption").
8. The only person with access to the SCIF in that house was the (then) Senator Biden himself.

Basically, we know a crime was committed. Those documents could not be there from that time without a crime being committed. And we can conclude who put the documents there from the information. Reasonable jury will find this to be enough to convict, well me, if I had done this. It is my conclusion that a reasonable person can conclude the same for Brandon.

Not all classified documents are required to be viewed in a SCIF, how do you know these particular documents had such a requirement?

[Jarod]

I am not assuming anything. I am using the information provided in the articles. And I am not assuming I am coming to a logical conclusion from the information provided.

What we know.
1. Documents were illegally kept at Biden's house since the time he was in the Senate.
2. Senators do not have access to the material but in one place (a SCIF in the basement of the Capitol).
3. The rules of that SCIF are documented.
4. If others brought the documents with them to his house it was illegal (2003 Classified materials and handling EO signed by Bush and the law it refers to both list this as illegal).
5. If he did not report them for bringing the documents to his house it was illegal (Same law as before).
6. If he allowed them to leave the documents at his house it was illegal. (Same law as before).
7. It is unlikely that others brought the documents to his house. (simple conclusion from the information provided, not an "assumption").
8. The only person with access to the SCIF in that house was the (then) Senator Biden himself.

Basically, we know a crime was committed. Those documents could not be there from that time without a crime being committed. And we can conclude who put the documents there from the information. Reasonable jury will find this to be enough to convict, well me, if I had done this. It is my conclusion that a reasonable person can conclude the same for Brandon.

If others brought the documents to his house, it is only illegal if he knew about it. You assume he knew about it.

[Jarod]

I am not assuming anything. I am using the information provided in the articles. And I am not assuming I am coming to a logical conclusion from the information provided.

What we know.
1. Documents were illegally kept at Biden's house since the time he was in the Senate.
2. Senators do not have access to the material but in one place (a SCIF in the basement of the Capitol).
3. The rules of that SCIF are documented.
4. If others brought the documents with them to his house it was illegal (2003 Classified materials and handling EO signed by Bush and the law it refers to both list this as illegal).
5. If he did not report them for bringing the documents to his house it was illegal (Same law as before).
6. If he allowed them to leave the documents at his house it was illegal. (Same law as before).
7. It is unlikely that others brought the documents to his house. (simple conclusion from the information provided, not an "assumption").
8. The only person with access to the SCIF in that house was the (then) Senator Biden himself.

Basically, we know a crime was committed. Those documents could not be there from that time without a crime being committed. And we can conclude who put the documents there from the information. Reasonable jury will find this to be enough to convict, well me, if I had done this. It is my conclusion that a reasonable person can conclude the same for Brandon.

If not required for a SCIF, he is not required to report anyone leaving them at his house.
If he did not know they left the documents at his house how could he report it?
"Unlikely" is not enough to be "beyond a reasonable doubt" I prosecutor cannot convict based on it being unlikely. Any judge gives a directed verdict on "unlikely".

[Nordberg]

Biden and Pence had documents sitting around without present knowledge. They were sitting for a long time, which proves there was no potential criminal use. It was mishandling, which is not criminal. Intent matters a lot. They were not planning of using them for personal purposes. Trump was.

[Damocles]

If not required for a SCIF, he is not required to report anyone leaving them at his house.
If he did not know they left the documents at his house how could he report it?
"Unlikely" is not enough to be "beyond a reasonable doubt" I prosecutor cannot convict based on it being unlikely. Any judge gives a directed verdict on "unlikely".

LOL. Give me a reasonable version of the documents getting there, documents that only he had access to in that house, documents that could not be taken from a place other than that SCIF, illegally. I'm waiting. They just dropped by to leave documents around secretly, hidden carefully that they took illegally from a SCIF? Tell me more how all sorts of people who work in SCIFs take documents illegally from the SCIF to drop them off at Biden's house. No reasonable person believes what you are shoveling here.

[Damocles]

Biden and Pence had documents sitting around without present knowledge. They were sitting for a long time, which proves there was no potential criminal use. It was mishandling, which is not criminal. Intent matters a lot. They were not planning of using them for personal purposes. Trump was.

Mishandling is criminal. That's the rub here, bub. It isn't necessary for them to "know" they had mishandled it, only to be reckless with it, it is their responsibility to secure it, and mishandling it is criminal. If I mishandled these in the same way I would be in prison. Now, with Pence, like with Biden, stuff when when they were VP can find a way to your house during a briefing. They also have plenary power (since 2009) to declassify if they wanted. So, it is possible that those documents were a wash and were not still classified, though neither of them say they were. It is also possible that during their time as VP folks could bring it there and leave it because they broke the law and mishandled it.

However, if they were from their time in the Senate, that is no longer the case. There is no reasonable way the documents get there other than mishandling of that information by the person who was in the SCIF and cleared for it. Folks are not dropping by shedding classified information from the Senate SCIF.

[Damocles]

If others brought the documents to his house, it is only illegal if he knew about it. You assume he knew about it.

Again, folks do not just shed documents at the Biden household like they were skin and they were really itchy. You need to come up with a reasonable defense not one that nobody could reasonably believe. The reality is, that the documents from his Senate time only get there in one way within reason.

Even if he forgets that they were there, that is still being reckless with the documents and breaking the law.